On Fri, 27 Jun 2003 20:48:27 -0400, Noydb
wrote:

Frogleg wrote:

Shoot -- can't follow the players without previous quoting. However,

Sometime, someone wrote:

Using Miracle Grow exclusively will deplete your soil. There is no need
to add fertilizers to a fully organic soil, although soil amendments may
be useful from time to time.

I fail to understand how the use of Miracle-Gro can "deplete" soil.
It's simply a soluable fertilizer. I've heard wicked tales of "salts"
being left behind after years of use, but if true, it's still not a
case of soil "depletion."


I wrote that.

What follows is a viewpoint. I recognize that there are opposing viewpoints
and accept that I am unlikely to convince those holding the opposing
viewpoint to see things my way. I have no desire to begin a "holy war" over
Miracle Grow or even the foundry waste that passes as fertilizer. However,
your point merits response.

snip quite relevent material

I agree with nearly all of what you said. I *adore* (and brew)
compost, and know that while Miracle-Gro may supply basic nutrients,
fertilizer is far from the be-all, end-all of growing plants, generous
soil, and a proper lifestyle. :-) My quarrel is with a "no chemical"
philosophy, and a generalized vilification of everything that comes in
a bottle, box, or plastic bag. Suppose I recommended acetic acid for
weed control: flags would go up; perhaps comments that "organic
methods are superior." Of course, acetic acid is vinegar, which is
often suggested as an "organic" alternative to "chemical poison"
weedkillers. I don't understand why there has to be a such a
confrontational attitude between The Organics and The Really Bad
People. We've got possters wondering if they're completely beyond the
pale for using a little Miracle-Gro solution on their houseplants! One
person suggested *anyone* could keep a bucket of manure tea around,
even in a high-rise apt. I beg to differ.

The title of this thread shows what I feel is the problem. Either/or.
One or the other. And I'm not really sure what each is. I love compost
and manure, and I'm going to mix up a little Miracle-Gro to feed my
porch plants this morning. I am very critical of the chemical
lawn-spray service engaged by a neighbor to artificially produce a
golf course appearance that costs *me* money. That is, I'm taxed for
chemical runnoff into the Bay, even when I don't spray, fertilize, or
even *water* my lawn. And when God wants my car washed, She'll make it
rain.

When I first began gardening, I used Sevin dust for insect control.
When I learned how damaging it was to beneficial (and pretty) insects,
I quit. In fact, I've found most pests can be either tolerated or
picked off/up and squished. I've had a lot of success with BT San
Diego, but is that a "chemical" or an "organic" control? I use bug
stuff (not Sevin) very sparingly on specific plants for specific
problems. I hand-spray Weed-B-Gon on individual dandelions and don't
feel like I'm ruining the planet.

I just think that an either/or viewpoint is not useful. Is it "OK" to
use Miracle-Gro? Sure. It's not a sin. Are there alternative
fertilizers? Sure, and many that will have side benefits of improving
soil tilth. Does fish emulsion ("organic", even when it comes in a
plastic bottle with a brand name -- few of us brew fish) do any more
than a chemical formulation? I don't think so. I note that it's also a
nitrogen-rich substance, so may not be suitable for promoting fruting
veg.

Instead of "chemical VS. organic", how 'bout "what substances cause
damage? Which are effective? What about cost?" I could easily go
around scolding people for using Sevin -- it kills bees and
butterflies and there are many safer alternative. *Irrigation*, f'r
heaven's sake, may cause buildup of salts and render land
unproductive. So is *water* a lethal chemical?

Oh, foof. I've gotten all puffed up and wordy. "Can't we all just get
along?"