"Gregory Young" wrote:
Immunology in our aquatic friends is not very different, than in their "more evolved" mammalian counterparts, as I am sure
you are aware.

.... WOWOWOW... it is VERY much different. Their B cell capability is simple compared
to birds and mammals. They dont have anywhere close to the number of variable and
hypervariable regions, I dont even know if immunoglobulin switching in the heavy
region has been demonstrated nor somatic cell mutation in the hypervariable region in
response to antigen. Fish are low on evolutionary tree for immunology.

Interesting.. a controlled number of parasites.. it would be nice, out of
the lab, if we could control the number of parasites.

...... I dont think you are going to accept any kind of research as being "good
enough" are you? When, may I ask, has Koch's postulates every been demonstrate in
humans? So you cant accept that AIDS is caused by HIV unless the disease has been
isolated in pure culture and humans infected with it? OF COURSE lab research has
validity in the field. But sure as hell if the research was not done first in the
lab under controlled conditions it wouldnt be acceptable to referred journals.

The secreted IgA in the human "slime coat" (known as nasal
secretions) has been shown to be of no protective value. Protection is
offered only by serum immunoglobulins. Sound
familiar?

..... Nasal secretions have absolutely NO relationship to the slime coat in fish.
Nasal secretions (typically a quart a day) are meant to wash the bacteria away. It
is a completely different evolutionary adaptation.

In vitro (in the lab), suggesting (theory), could (hypothesis, not yet
proven). That's my point. Almost 30 years later, after my marine training,
and there still is no proof of immunological protection from the slime coat,
which is what I stated.

.... Like I said, you wont accept any research as valid. The fact is fish DO develop
immunity to ich, which is an ectoparasite.

Because immobilization can be readily observed in
the laboratory and fits a number of different models of potential
mechanisms of immunity

.... and this is how every single human vaccine has been developed. But immunity to
bacteria and parasites is extremely limited, even in immunologically advanced species
like humans. This is why malaria, trypanosomes, TB, strep, staph, etc, etc. are the
last major "predators" of humanity. We have our dry epithelium and normal flora as
the first and best defense against infection thru the skin. The wet epithelium of
our gut sloughs to get rid of the cooties AND has "friendly" colonies to prevent
infection along with mostly non-specific cellular immunity. Vaccines are effective
against many viruses. It just isnt there for bacteria and parasites. Fish are "wet"
epithelium inside and out, and their evolution includes many kinds of secretions into
their slime coat to deal with the onslaught.
Ingrid


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