There are almost no scientific articles detailing studies done on pet fish in itty
bitty ponds, damned few on koi and goldfish raised in larger ponds for pets. The
bulk of research is done on food fish. Most is applicable to "pet" fish with some
reservations.
I dont see any literature that disputes the cultural techniques and practices used
for thousands of years by the Chinese and Japanese. They developed these strains of
fish. They developed the techniques that are sound, economical and have stood the
test of time. They are still the major producers. These breeders of Koi and GF use
salt to prevent disease. The Chinese and Japanese have not traditionally given away
their "trade" secrets. However, people like Brett have gone to Japan to learn from
the masters and he has become an expert in koi breeding. Brett uses it because the
Japanese use it and it works. Jo Ann uses salt because she has imported thousands of
top quality Goldfish from the Chinese and they use it, her instructors in aquaculture
at the U of Florida recommend it and it works.
Brett http://www.brettsfishfarm.com/
Jo Ann http://users.megapathdsl.net/~solo/p...aracters.html,
http://hometown.aol.com/lazulifawn/page1.html

I accept a couple thousand years of experience raising fish in ponds as valid data.
I dont see any valid data showing that it is harmful. Plants are not killed by salt
levels at or under 0.1%. Demonstrating salt resistance in a few parasites doesnt
prove anything except there are salt resistant parasites, hell, the ocean is full of
them. The use of salt in ponds has less to do with treating parasites than with
supporting the electrolyte balance of fish and stimulating the slime coat which is
the first line of defense against parasites. Using salt as part of good general
cultural practices leads to vast reduction in ever needing to treat fish for parasite
infestations in the first place. This is why the Chinese and Japanese use it.
The idea of "saving" the use of salt for treatment supposes that the parasites
infesting the fish are not already salt resistant. It supposes that withdrawing salt
from the water is going to lead to a reversal to salt sensitive parasites. It also
supposes that high salt levels are the best treatment for parasite infestations. I
see no valid data to support any of these suppositions.
The demonstration that low levels of antibiotics fed to animals leads to bacterial
resistance doesnt work as a model system for salt and parasites. Antibiotics are
generally used to treat internal bacterial infections, not external parasite
infestations. Salt is present in every living thing to about the same concentration
(0.9%) unlike antibiotics that are only found in some species of bacteria and fungi.
No one has taken the time to invalidate the use of salt in ornamental fish either.
Medicine has a long history of using "what works" for centuries before a scientific
explanation is found. Physicians did not eschew use of aspirin until its mechanism
of action was found.
My definition of an expert includes learning and experience, but more important is
that it has been their source of lively hood and that they been successful at it for
a number of years. Live long, prosper, then publish. Publishing a book doesnt
qualify a person as an expert. There are many books out there full of misinformation
of the most egregious sort. A book written by an expert as defined above carries a
great deal of weight with me. A book written by a practicing scientist in the field
and used as a textbook in a university would be a close second. But as a scientist I
have a predilection for experts who are scientists and use proper scientific
methodology. Being and keeping current in the field is of course essential.
I dont consider myself an expert in this field either. When others say they really
know very little about the areas in which they are judged an expert I believe they
are truthfully assessing their abilities. When I tell people I am not an expert and
they dont believe me I assume they dont even have a good enough grasp of the field to
make a valid judgement.
I am rather surprised that you feel "that man often fails to improve on what nature
provides" since nature definitely provides a method of selection of the fittest for
all living things, something that medicine is committed to thwarting. We dont want
"nature" selecting against our beautiful but definitely unfit koi. There is very
little that is natural about a pond that is a closed system and overstocked with fish
bred for bright flashy coloring rather than a robust immune system, protective
coloration and reproductive success.
I really cannot assess the level of expertise of those running/teaching seminars. It
takes a little technical ability to teach people how to do a scrape and identify
common parasites. It takes some diagnostic ability to point out that a couple gyros
dont mean much and is not a reason to treat an entire pond. OTOH, it does take a
great deal of expertise to look at fish in a pond, know what the problem is and how
to fix it before checking the water parameters, catching the fish, doing the scrape
and identifying it in a microscope to confirm the diagnosis. How many sick fish and
sick ponds have the people been treating per month and for how many years?
OK. blew a few hours on this response that are really needed elsewhere.
Ingrid

"Gregory Young" wrote:
I have discussed prophylactic salt with Rod, and disagree with him
the data he quoted was from studies done on aquaculture of
catfish
If Rod/anyone else showsvalidated data
why I feel it is not a good practice, based on proven fact
(impact on plants, impact on disease resistance).
Again there is a debate, as no one has taken the time/effort to
scientfically validate this use of salt in ornamental fish.
How do you define expert
Those "experts" I have gotten to know professionally, and otherwise, who are
forthwith, will be the first to tell you how little they really know about
the areas in which they are judged as expert.
One thing I havefound is that man often fails to improve on what nature provides
Are KHAs then considered experts, based on their training?
Greg


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
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