On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 08:57:19 -0700, Radika Kesavan
wrote:

dave weil wrote:
In the interest of reporting, I just wanted to note that my CB(CL) has
been in continuous bloom since the onset of blooms. That's been about
3 months now. I had the first really big flush back in May, but there
have always been more than just scattered blooms on the plant. I had a
pretty good sized "second flush" that included throwing 2 huge
panticles directly from the base of the plant (not off of a stem).
Here's a pic of it, although it's a bit difficult to see. First is on
May 5th and you can see them growing on the right side (the red
stems):

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CB1.jpg

A week later:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CB2.jpg

Then, almost in full bloom the second week of June:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CBJune8.jpg

Other than that bloom, I've always had lots of clusters higher up. As
some fade, others open (and I haven't trimmed any of them up in the
tree, basically because it wold be a pain in the ass...)

I just mention this because this is the first year that I've seen this
(third year). The first two, I only got a very scattered set of blooms
after the flush (and long stretches with *no* blooms). I wonder if
there *are* indeed nonreblooming and reblooming versions, or if the
reporting of nonreblooming plants is just those observing young
specimens. Anybody with experience in this area?

Yes, quite, in both.

It is hard to tell from the first picture, but it is very clear in the
second. your CB blooms are coming out in long panicles, aren't they.
That is a characteristic of the Spray form of CB, not the Climber.

Well, they come out in panicles the way that my climbing Old Blush and
Fairy throw panicles. I just assume that that's the way that the
blooms come off of the cane. The big panicles that I pictured are the
only ones that were at the end of the growth, not coming off of the
canes, which is why I thought it was odd.

I have grown a Spray Cecile Brunner for nine years now, and it behaved
as though it was almost a non-rebloomer and its first three years, and
now, it is apretty consistent remontant rose. And the tell-tale sign is
that the blossoms come out in those long and lovely panicles.

Does your grow as a climber would? I ask because mine has canes that
are between 10 and 15 feet long and certainly climbing wherever I
train it (which in this case has been up in the branches of the dead
tree.

There is a rather healthy specimen of real Climbing Cecile Brunner at
the Heritage Garden in San Jose, it is HUGE and perhaps about 8 years
old. This one is very different from the Spray Cecile Brunner in the
blossoms blooming like a normal rose, not in those long and lovely
panicles. Also, this rose does what climbing CB is famous for: a HUGE
explosion of blossoms in the first flush, then throws out blossoms in
onesies and twosies and may twentysies for the rest of the growing season.

You don't know where there's a picture of this rose, or a similar one,
do you?

What is normal for CB? I've seen pics of the bush form and it seems
the same to me...

Whereas the Spray Cecile Brunner gives a minimum of four distinct and
large flushes in our garden, though the first one is the largest and the
subsequent ones slighlty smaller.

As I said, mine has basically been in bloom the whole season. Right
now, it seems to be resting a little, but I still have new blooms and
more on the way...

Also, I *wa*s going to ask what I should have done with those
panticles as they've been bare for about 3 weeks now. I was hesitant
to cut them because they didn't grow like a normal cane, and I've now
been rewarded with new growth coming directly out of the fan of canes
at the tip. If they all generate new canes, then I'm going to be
overwhelmed with new growth! The only downside is that they will all
be fairly small diameter canes supported by one BIG HONKIN' basal.
Still, might work well for covering the trunk of the tree.

You can shape the Spray Cecile Brunner anyway you like, as long as you
leave it a large bush. I leave those canes alone, and yes, more growth
comes out of the tips, unless they get in my husband's way when he mows
the lawn. I have told him that this is one rose where he can cut off any
cane that tries to scratch him without consulting me first, for Spray CB
is an exuberant grower anyway. Besides, the thorns on this rose are
cruelly curved downwards and tear the flesh very effectively, so the
bush needs to be contained.

Mine definitely hasn't grown in a bush form. The second year, it threw
a HUGE fat basal that's ended up being about 15 feet long, with lots
of canes growing off of it. This cane is almost 2 inches wide and is
responsible for all of the growth that you see up in the branches.

When the bush was younger, I made the mistake of pruning and defoliating
(in our climate, some polyanthas remain evergreen). After Kim Rupert, a
trusted Rose-Breeder pointed out that this is a silly thing to do with a
bush that never wants to lose its leaves, I have been leaving the Spray
CB alone as far as winter pruning goes. The reward is that I get almost
continuous onset of distinct flushes on this rose.

Just thought I'd throw this out for the record...

Entertaining report which I enjoyed and your observations coincide with
mine.

Has your spray CB ever exhibited any climbing traits such as the ones
that I've described?

Here are two more pics, one of the general growth and one of the new
growth on the lower panicle. In the first, it's hard to see, but there
are several sprays and a lot of buds. In the second, to the right, you
can see the 2 inch wide basal that is the source of all of the growth
in the tip part of the tree...

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CB3.jpg

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CB4.jpg