In article , dave weil
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Jul 2003 19:52:26 -0700, Cass
wrote:

In article , dave weil
wrote:

http://mywpages.comcast.net/ddweil2/CB7.jpg

That certainly looks like my plain old Cecile Brunner in bud. Are the
pedicels (http://members.aol.com/mmmavocad3/RoseAnat2.html) spiny?

If you mean "do they have prehensile thorns", no, they are smooth. If
that's not what you mean, then you need to elaborate.

The pedicel is the stem that comes down out of the receptacle (which
forms the hip) within a spray. On my Cecile Brunner, the pedicels have
little spines.

I assume that pedicels is a little different than panicles. Or am I
wrong? I assume that the main stem of the cluster is a pencuncle while
each branch is a pedicel, right? I would guess that the whole assembly
is a panicle?

Yep, the whole thing is a panicle. A panicle is a spray. On Sally
Holmes they can be 24 inches long. On Susan Louise, I have one that's
this [spreading arms full width] wide and this [holding one arm over
head and other down by leg] high. On my Cecile Brunner, the panicles
are about 2' x 2'.

BTW, what is your "plain ole Cecile Brunner"? Climbing or bush?
Reblooming or not?

Bush. As I understand it, the climbing form is an old sport from the
late 1800's that doesn't rebloom well, whereas Spray Cecile Brunner is
a more recent, reblooming sport which is sometimes sold and confused
with 'Bloomfield Abundancer." Vintage says that Spray Cecile Brunner
is a nice 5 foot shrub. To complicate matters, Improved Cecile Brunner
isn't a sport and is derived from a new cross.

Somewhere I read that the spines on the pedicels are diagnostic.... but
of what, I don't recall. Since my bush form has spiny pedicels, I
thought I'd ask if your climber has the spines or not.

--
-=-
Cass
USDA Zone 9 Left Coast
www.rosefog.us