"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
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"James Curts" wrote in message
news:RUWRa.79200$GL4.20189@rwcrnsc53...

"Michael Saunby" wrote in message
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"Jim Webster" wrote in message
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"Oz" wrote in message
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Oz writes

The sad thing is not just that it is completely denigrating of
women -
they sit there for hours stringing tiny beads onto fishing line
and
just
about go crazy, and then they will just loose their money- but
that
it
has consequences for whole families and communities. People here
only
take loans from within their family or maybe from neighbours.
What
happens when the money goes missing and people can't pay their
family
members back? What happens when people start to blame their
friends
and
neighbours who told them how wonderful the scheme was? This scheme
is
not just thievery but a community destroyer creating anger and
destroying trust.


didn't something very similar happen in Albania not long after that
overthrew the communists?

and wasn't there something that took off in the SW of England over
some
sort
of culture in milk?


And of course those weird American folk had that Enron thing.

Michael Saunby


Yes, Michael, I noticed. No conversation is really complete without
knocking
the yanks irregardless they are always there when needed.

And some are oh, so sensistive! I don't always mock Americans, honestly.
Sometimes I take the **** out of white folks, men, or even Protestants!!!
But in truth many of my best friends are white male protestants - for all
their faults :-)


Enron was an eye opener for many. I feel government is remiss in
allowing
such immense wealth to be miss used in such cavalier manner. But as in
the
case of your own government the greed entices then entraps those who
could
stop the wrong doings.

But it's just like the bead thing. It might seem amazing to us that poor
folks will try and cheat each other, but it seems equally absurd that
people with almost unimaginable wealth will risk prison (or even death) to
cheat less wealthy people. What this ought to tell us is that such
behavoiur is entirely natural for many people.


Helping people as those in some of the 3rd world countries is often
almost
impossible or very difficult. Due a fragile or inept infrastructure
there
is often no workable line of communications to a centralized
organization.
Often these people have less than the basic tribal structure. Dealing
with
individuals is fruitless of course due to being a different looking
intruder
with every move being suspect.

Perhaps, though as African friends have told me there is also the "wise
white man effect" where apparently wealthy whites are trusted to run
businesses in Africa simply because they're white. It come as quite a
revelation to many that there are actually many really stupid whites.


Dealing in food products and especially when offering to establish
efficient
hydroponics systems in arid areas we find that many governments, such as
they are, toss up every imaginable roadblock to prevent the project from
being started or, if started, followed through to completion.


Part of your problem may be that hydroponics aren't particularly highly
regarded in the west either. I reckon that roughly 0% of my food is
produced in this way.

One instance in a South American involved nothing more than a rather
simple
chemical compound they refused to be imported into their country for
some.
After much scurrying around they "discover" a source from within their
own
country. So we smiled broadly and bought the product at 300% of our
supplier's price and all were happy. The containers were from our
original
suppliers. But that is life when dealing with these folks.

They are 3rd world countries for reasons which are very difficult to
combat
at times.

We have actually failed in a few instances because of local situations
ranging from the above example to direct refusal to accept help for an
area
or community.

So, regardless how pious or righteous your intentions, reality can slap
it
all down with a word. That does not mean we must ease the pressure on
these
groups but we certainly have much home work to have well in hand before
making the commitment.

James Curts

If it was easy it everyone would be doing it.

Michael Saunby

Actually the hydroponics growing systems are quite popular in the West and
produce a much larger portion of the fresh and perishables each year.
Canada, Australia, New Zealand, all moving rapidly into hydroponics growing
systems. Holland, a leading grower of roses, does so hydroponically. A
gentleman in England during the 70's raised hopes for agriculture types with
his "glasshouse" experiments. The US Military has produced or encouraged
significant amounts of hydroponically produced food products since the 40's.
NASA devotes a considerable effort to devising hydroponic systems for
sustaining life in space.

Quite a significant portion of US home and hobby gardeners utilize
hydroponics for their family greens and vegetables. Hydroponics supply
houses are common in even rather small towns and provide a variety of quick
start systems.

If you import BC produce from Canada it will undoubtedly be hydroponically
grown. (Much better shipping and shelf life) England is at a disadvantage in
utilizing some of the "glasshouse" growing methods because of the cost of
utilities and compounded by the environment which requires more heat and
light supplemented to "glasshouse" crops.

Initial start up cost is the largest factor keeping extensive hydroponics
projects from becoming much more the norm. While rather technical in nature
to establish and maintain, labor is somewhat minimal. Many universities
worldwide are deeply involved in the development of hydroponic practices and
growing technique.

I may be repeating myself but EuroFresh in Arizona has 120-160 acres under
glass roof in one connected lay out and grows only hydroponic tomatoes. That
is a lot of tomatoes and especially when considering that several times the
volume is produced per year from a given area. It is only one of many
growers who take advantage of the high sunlight areas.

BC hothouse of Canada raises a variety of vegetables while many of the
Australian growers concentrate on lettuce and greens. US growers are
diversifying more as the other Western growers become very competitive.

World wide, flowers and ornamentals are becoming more widely grown
hydrological each year. The largest rose growing organization in this area
does so hydroponically. Orchids and many other difficult and pricey plants
respond well to hydroponics culture.

We use hydroponic systems in the disadvantaged areas because they are simple
to set up, use relatively little water, produce much quicker and several
times more volume than dirt farming. Also orientation is surprisingly
simplified because there are no machines to operate and service and very few
people are required to maintain a system keeping the training process to a
minimum.

I give hydroponics high marks for being in the forefront of the food
producing industry as we move more rapidly into a world in which food is a
cost and availability issue for everyone. Hydroponics will be the life saver
of many in 3rd world nations as help becomes more available and accepted.

Thank you

James Curts