"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster wrote:

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...

If the soil is too fine - a clay - then water will not drain through
it.

That is why we have field drains, some of them over a thousand years
old.

Goodness. Must have still been a few forests in Britain back then.

Not especially, remember much of Britain was cleared about 3000 years ago,
was naturally reforested, and was cleared again. You can find ard marks
under ancient forest.


If it is too fine a clay the water will just pool on the surface.

Which is one reason why we plough to dry the land out.


If the soil is such that the water will drain through it, it may still
be
stopped by excess water at lower levels. Tree roots go a bit deeper and
pump out the lower water, and lower nutrients.

You don't sell all the `crops' you plant. Some are like lupin to
nitrogenate the soil.

What I am talking about is `agroforestry'. On a small dairy farm you
would
not have a huge tonnage of trees, they would be widely spaced, and
where
they pumped out water it would make space for adjoining water to move.

Except that the trees are pretty well worthless in the UK.

Only on the economic system which subsidises cattle and requires
quick pay-back.

No, on an economic system which expects me to feed my family for the 25
years while we wait to fell the trees. If expecting to be paid in less than
a generation is wanting quick payback, then I plead guilty.



If you are gearing a farm up to sell having some specialist timber on
it
might help to sell the farm. How about some spruce, pine or maple for
violin making? I don't know but maybe the growing rates would favour
the
type of density of timber? I may be way off. But if you are far enough
from population can you burn your own timber for hot water &C?

total waste of time in UK, none of those trees will pay for the grass
lost
in the area they stand.

Yes, the coniferous trees kill grass. Here we have a herbicide made
from pine oil.

I'm talking about the area the trunk takes up, never mind any further losses


I suppose the need for sun-shade is not great in Britain. But there
must be a need for wind shelter. A couple of belts of macrocarpas
spaced 100 yards or so will reduce prevaling wind velocity by a
large percentage for several hundred more yards.

We have hedges and undulating ground. Also we have grassland. In the NW of
England most shelterbelts are planted for hill sheep to shelter in,
especially over winter.


Absolutely. I doubt they would grow very well given your location
anyway. If the wind didn't get them, the salt would.

In New Zealand we grow macrocarpa near the sea. That is a useful
timber.
The roots can be long and not too deep. A shelter belt of a few rows
produces many single stemmed trees. If they are standing alone you
might
need to prune them.

And this is relevant to lowland Cumbria exactly how? We have a crop that
is
pretty well worthless in the UK and you expect me to prune it!

I think we need some evidence that macrocarpa is worthless.

You are perhaps an expert in the UK timber market?

It is
good firewood, but also good for boat building and furniture.

Except that round here firewood is uneconomic due to a combination of
smokeless zones, and cheap waste timber from softwood plantations. Planting
for other uses is uneconomic unless you have hundreds of acres to go at and
can budget over 60 to 120 years.

Jim Webster