"Henry Kuska" wrote in message news:07QYa.65537
...
Shiva, scientists communicate in Formal English. I do not feel that your
original statement is defendable in Formal English. ("It remains a fact that
we have seen no evidence at all--so far--that Rose Mosaic Virus can spread
from one plant to another in our gardens.").

Henry, I have already stated that it is obvious that we disagree about the "proper" use of the
word "evidence." As I'm sure you noted, there were several definitions. As I am also sure you
noted, I said that I am not going to play around with you about semantics because you cannot bear
to admit that you are wrong. It was ONE study. In response to my statement, you posted a link that
contained this:

"The following comments are an addendum to the Virus article written by Jeri Jennings, posted by
Tom Liggett in a discussion group as a follow-up to said article:

U.C. Davis FPMS has LONG (!!!!!) reported that "virus-free" (read that heat treated/indexed)
plants that were grown in insect-segregated greenhouses saw the spontaneous re-occurrence of virus
after five years. In my view, there is NO way to remove Mosaic (and mayhaps other) virus(es) from
plants once they re infected. Say what you want, but I am a rose grower of long standing that
worked in HUGE clinical research labs. Am I infallible? Hardly but I know just how small (and
tenacious) some types of viruses are. IF they are not a type of a virus (such as them as cause
influenza) that dies as a naturally-occurring end stages a part of its life cycle, then it is in
said host organism forever (at least with today's technology).

BTW; what some folks that have a vested interest (MONEY!!!!!) in virus in rose say PRIVATELY, is
MUCH different from what they say PUBLICLY (don't ask for details on this last part, as I ain't
givin' out no names). Tom

Also made were the following remarks by Ann Mansker:

It's an excellent article, but I have one caveat. There is some evidence that virus could possibly
be transmitted plant to plant. I had someone from UCD's Foundation Plant Materials Service come
and talk to Sierra Foothills, and he mentioned some preliminary work they were doing to see if
virus could be introduced into a plant via unsterilized cutting tools. The work was funded by an
association of commercial rose producers, who were puzzled to find low (1 - 2%) but consistent
emergence of virused plants in their supposedly clean blocks.

FPMS planted rows of R. multiflora (which shows distinct virus symptoms when it's infected), and
introduced virus into alternating plants. Over the course of the year, they cut the plants back
with hedge trimmers, just going straight across all the plants without regard to their virus
status. Over time (not sure if it was one year, or more, can't remember), they found virus in 1 -
2% of the plants which had not been innoculated. I can't remember how they eliminated the
possibility of root grafting (maybe the plants were too far apart?), but the speaker indicated
that this very limited and preliminary result was cause for thought. Ann M.


This website made possible by a grant from the Uncommon Rose"

Now then, the source of the information or, as you say, "study", coming third or fourth hand, is
allegedly University of California--UCD, as Mansker puts it. This is what I was responding to, not
anything from any other agency. It was a ridiculous link for you to post as "evidence that Rose
Mosaic Virus can be spread in our gardens," and you know it. Even if this alleged study was
legitimate, it is ONLY ONE STUDY, and no reasonable person would accept that as "evidence that
Rose Mosaic Virus can be spread in our gardens." Particularly since it showed a ONE TO TWO PERCENT
incidence of "infection" of plants we do not have any way of knowing did not have RMV to begin
with.

You clearly cannot find another study that replicates these results or even comes close, so you
want to argue more semantics.

No. You may be retired, but I am not.

Until you can produce another study that even begins to suggest that RMV can spread in our
gardens, you have not produced any evidence AT ALL that it can.

Learn to admit it when you're wrong. I do it all the time. It is no big deal.

P.S. I am glad to see you posting again.