13-08-2003, 08:02 PM
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What's The Latest On Roundup Herbicide?
In article , (Bill Oliver) wrote:
In article ,
paghat wrote:
In article , (Bill
Oliver) wrote:
You actually cited very little, but what you did cite..
And you, I see, cite nothing in this screed.
cut & pasted from the web, by Elaine Dallegrave et al, indicted herbicides
& pesticides including glyphosate -- your point is you didn't find
peer-reviewed independent science credible when they used large doses, &
you pretended there were no studies not about large doses didn't exist.
Then then you cut & paste another abstract from the web by
Williams/Kroes/Munro who did research with Monsanto funding implicitly to
prove safety rather than assess risk.
blah blah blah.
When you can't argue the science, argue the people. Forget about
this peer-reviewed articles in peer-reviewed journal stuff; everybody
who disagrees with you is a "Monsanto flack."
billo
You project too much with that. YOU only consider the source when it fails
to support Monsanto. YOU dismiss horrifying testimony even by
whistleblowing Monsanto employees under oath as courtroom shinanigans
unrelated to the science the whistleblowers admit they fabricated. YOU
dismiss all credible peer-reviewed science from ecologists as biased but
profit-motivated Monsanto science you believe, even when it is proven to
have been intentionally fabricated. YOU even said that fabricating data &
lying about it doesn't effect the value of the science just so long as it
is supportive of Monsanto. YOU lied saying you had cited non-Monsanto
science when in fact you cited one of the biggest Monsanto hired guns of
all time, so the point is you misrepresented a Monsanto flack as
independent research, & that the guy got hired by Monsanto because of his
previous great work promoting smoking as completely safe doesn't phase you
a bit, because you're not running on reason, & how curious that is.
I on the other hand freely admit that SOME independent science
(especially that which avoids assessing risk directly) has some good
things to say about glyphosate; when science is BOTH peer-reviewed and not
conducted by or funded by Monsanto, the picture becomes much muddier than
when relying, as you rely, on Monsanto flacks.
On balance the INDEPENDENT research is against it; it definitely kills
frogs; it definitely harms the environment; it definitely effects
reproductive rates of mammals; it is PROBABLY carcinogenic but Monsanto's
doing what it can to insure further research on that goes unfunded; &
it's definitely something that should not be used in gardens. The most
strident "favorable" commentaries are all but invariably not
peer-reviewed, are not in peer-reviewed journals unless in letter columns
with Monsanto weighing in, or most easily accessed web-wise not by MedLine
but by Monsanto-financed ExToxNet, & much of the favorableness is not even
to be found studies but in editorials posing as studies. There are
exceptions, but you failed to find any (I refuse to cite them for you;
your citation of pro-tobacco pro-glyphosate pro-GM Dr. Munro assuredly
doesn't count).
I see the full range of commentaries; you have failed to do so to a
fantastic degree. I see what Monsanto leaves out, & pays others to leave
out. You're clearly blinded -- so my only remaining curiosity about it is
why you would be so purblind when on so many topics you are clearly an
intelligent fellow. As you deny being the same Bill Oliver who services
Monsanto through the American Chemical Society, & I'm willing to believe
that since I've long known you (if only thru UseNet) as someone interested
in writerliness rather than chemistry. So it's puzzling. It may only be
your guilt over not being able to give up your own gardening herbicide
addiction, but you do sound like someone with family or personal
connections to Monsanto. Monsanto has instructed employees to undertake
just this kind of muddying argument on UseNet & bulletin boards, &
rec.gardens in fact had a Monsanto flack spend about three years talking
about nothing else ever. I don't categorize you as same, but you make the
same noises.
-paghat the ratgirl
--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/
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