On Tue, 12 Aug 2003 13:51:33 GMT, "Mike Stevenson"
wrote:

For one stomach acid rarely leaves the stomach. When it does its due to
disorders of the digestive tract such as acid reflux disease. Stomach acid
does not pass into the small and large intestines where these bacteria live.
As to the PH of alcohol HE did not establish it. Ph tests do, you can visit
a number of websites if you like and see the Phs for things such as grain
alchohol and wine and find that they tend to be very low, a good quality
Syrah has a Ph of 3.53 as published on the makers website. A good Merlot has
a similar pH of 3.52. Wines contain tannins, or Tartaric ACID. Coffee
contains tannins, as does tea. Alcohols made from grains (including beer)
contains some levels of tannin, and other acidic compounds.

Yes. So how it is that the GI tract is routinely capable of
neutralizing the very strong acid HCl before it enters the small
intestine but incapable of neutralizing the much weaker organic acids
in foods and beverages? Why is it that I should worry about coffee
and "alcohol" but not worry about the much more strongly acidic fresh
fruits, juices, and condiments? Lemonade anyone? Vinagrette?
Chipotles en escabeche'?

As another poster noted, my point is that alcohol (ethanol) DOES NOT
HAVE A pH. Consequently, neither I nor you nor the OP will find
"grain alcohol" to have a low pH.

The pH of wine is not a property of its alcohol content. The grapes
were acidic before picking or fermenting. Should one forgo grapes as
well? Tannins are not related to tartaric acid. Tannins are very
easily and strongly bound to proteins and as such are probably not
very available to dissociate. Unless they do, they too, will have no
pH. Once dissociated, they will seize almost any available protein
once again become unavailable. They are present in most fruit skins.
Must we peel our grapes?

As to the various claims regarding B-12 producing populations in the
human gut, I don't know but I doubt it. It has been too many years
since I studied anything related. (I do recall that the technology to
measure B12 has become more sophisticated and accurate )

What makes me skeptical is that when one confects a mixture of
improbable, unlikely, and plainly erroneous material as the
scaffolding on which to build a theory of nutrition, its difficult to
admire the soaring ediface while ignoring the rotten foundation, so to
speak. If I want to acquire B12 in my diet "naturally", it will be
most easily obtained from animal protein or milk products. If one
chooses a more limited diet, then "artificial, chemical, manufactured"
supplements will help the "natural, organic, whole" diet.

By the by, last night's Talisker on the rocks had a pH (measured on a
really cheap meter, not a lab instrument) of 8+. No doubt due to the
fact that our local water has a pH in the 7.9-8.5 vicinity, depending
on time of year. So, say 6 orders of magnitude less "acidic" than my
stomach.