Jim Webster wrote:

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster wrote:

"Brian Sandle" wrote in message
...
Jim Webster wrote:


But my point is that if you don't notice any of those differences then
perhaps your perceptivity might not be trusted as to differences
between
cows reactions to GM vs non-GM feed.

stop being silly

we are not talking about arbitary perceptions but people who are
monitoring
high yielding dairy cows so closely that a 5% drop in yield against
predicition is a cause for major investigation.

Yield is one important thing, but some people will pay for qualities,
won't they?

not s noticable proportion of the UK population

So many are trying to coach down the quest for organic quality.

When the top milk is butter it can no longer be poured on the
pudding.


BF, Protein and Lactose have been measured on a twice weekly basis (at
least) in UK milk for over 20 years. All these things are carefully
monitored

Measured in quantity.

I used to think that the processing was causing the trouble - that the
milk would be being agitated more in processing so that the journey in the
delivery truck would finish the churning to butter of the top milk.
Now I am thinking of the different fatty acid composition of the BF
because of feed.

If GM feed had any effect at
all on milk yield as opposed to the conventional feed it would have been
spotted and its effects detailed

Though I am thinking that large scale importation of maize may have
coincided with the time it became Bt, unwanted or unallowed (Starlink) for
human consumption.

look at Torstens post,

Which post? My server has not had overseas groups for a few days.

there has been no sudden large importation of maize

Therefore it should be possible to check.

Again:

Linkname: GM Animal Feed
URL: http://www.btinternet.com/~clairejr/Animal/animal.html
size: 547 lines

Ohio farmer Leon Ridzon does not grow GMOs, but he deals with farmers
who do. He recounted local farmers' experience with Bt corn: "We first
had problems three years ago, when famers planted Bt corn and the cows
refused to eat it. The farmers had to camouflage it to get them to eat
it."

So waht sort of `camouflaging' was done and is it being done to maize
before export to britain?

Maybe these cows are just finicky? Ridzon says not - other animals
won't eat Bt grain either: "The Bt corn was left on the cob and stored
in an open bin. The rabbits would not touch it, the squirrels would
not touch it. The rats and mice didn't go near it. It killed all the
spiders in the bins."

Ridzon has become increasingly suspicious about the possible toxicity
of Bt corn. His testimony is the more remarkable for the fact that the
norm for most Ohio farmers is intensively grown and chemically treated
corn - which the animals apparently prefer to GM Bt corn.

Ridzon confirms Sprinkel's account of reduced weight gain in Bt
corn-fed cattle. He says farmers report that cattle need nine pounds
of Bt corn to make a one pound weight gain as compared with only six
of normal corn.

Then that must not be because they eat less.

Journalist Steven Sprinkel says that a major U.S. seed dealer told him
that there is evidence that earthworms are dying as a result of the
effects of Bt corn. Sprinkel comments, "This is not an activist
promoting the notion that GMO plants have unpredicated results. It's a
midwestern big seed dealer who would have more to gain by keeping
quiet, and much to lose if he got caught in a liability cross-fire. So
my assumption is that there is a big iceberg under these rumours and
chit-chat. Reasonable people are asking reasonable questions."

Waiting for science

These reports from farmers and seed dealers can easily be dismissed as
anecdotal evidence from which no conclusions can be drawn. But if we
wait for the scientists to catch up, it could be too late. Scientific
studies take years to do, and the majority are funded by industry or
governments greased with biotech dollars. Who is going to fund a study
which may find that a GM crop is toxic?

Were cows on a similar amount of maize before then?

Yes

Sure?

If
not there would be no accurate comparison. Has anything been done to it to
improve palatability?

No

Not before it was imported?



As it is all we get is someone in the mid west winding up a reporter
telling
them that racoons will not eat it

So you ignore it and the other animals.

tales told to wind up a reporter as opposed to measurable facts, yes I
ignore the racoon story

And Ridzon?