GardenBanter.co.uk - View Single Post

20-08-2003, 07:12 PM

(Bill Oliver) wrote in :

History is full of monumentous mistakes that at the
time were either not seen in need of scientific approval or were
approved with the (incomplete) knowledge of that time.

And even greater mistakes made by anti-scientific
irrationality.

That may be true and we should try to avoid that as well. But people are
irrational, period. That is why they could be deceived by Monsanto and
that is why they keep distrusting them after that, maybe longer than
needed, but still...

I find it hard to believe that _anyone_ could be so rigid in trusting
the evidence around a product coming from a company ...

In other words, ignore the science, ignore the evidence,
ignore any rational considerations about the product
itself whatsoever.

Roundup is dangerous because you don't like Monsanto.
No other evidence is needed or accepted.

If you read that in my words I think it's time to sit back and read it
again. I did not say that.

I'm only saying there are other concerns beside the purely rational ones.
If you do not allow for that the rest of your arguments will never be
heard. Fact of life.

Any evidence to the contrary is to be dismissed out of
hand. The fact there is *no* evidence whatsoever that
Roundup is dangerous to humans when used as directed
is *irrelevant.*

Not to me. But if you want to convince ppl you'll have to win their trust.
They will not trust you if you ignore their (irrational) doubts.

And, of course, after all these screeds about conflict
of interest and the horrors of making money, you
ignore the fact that animaux made a *career* of pushing
this bullshit. You want to talk about conflict of
interest? And Tom -- he certainly clammed up when
asked what kind of money he made from pushing his
anti-science agenda. As far as I know, the only
person in this discussion who isn't making money
one way or the other on this is me.

And me :-). Btw. I'm not accusing you of conflict of interest; I just
asked you to acknowledge that such things exist and to give us your
opinion on it. Since you so intensely ignore that issue it is as if you
deny it.

Funny, you don't have any problems with *that*
conflict of interest, do you?

I'm not accusing anyone of a conflict of interest.

Roundup must be declared dangerous because it represents
unacceptable thought.

Pure and simple.

Monsanto to me respresents unacceptable thought and an unacceptable form
of doing business, yes. We do not have to agree on that. However, if the
sheer amount of historic lies by Monsanto does not even make you doubt the
evidence, then you can not expect ppl to take you serious. This is just an
observation I make, trying to explain why you didn't win any hearts.

That's why the lack of any evidence of danger to humans
when used as directed is irrelevant, and why anybody
guilty of the non-organic thought crime must be
demonized.

I don't think Monsanto needs any demonizing by me, they are doing a rather
good job themselves.

I'm really concerned. Monsanto is trying to use still underresearched GM-
technology to get an edge that will pay out 10000-fold during the coming
century. Of course they will use any means to get to that goal. They have
en enormous apparatus in place to misinform all the officials and they
don't even deny it. They have about the worst track-record possible
regarding environmental issues.
In this game, with huge, huge interests at stake, Roundup plays a central
role. It would seem only logical that because of that alone there would be
hardly any trustworthy evidence around.

If you refuse to acknowledge these simple facts you can not expect us to
take your position seriously. To me this thread was an interesting attempt
to get some more insight in this difficult issue. In weighing the evidence
I tried to get a hold on the thought-processes behind them. I think the
picture is complete by now.

Thanks anyway for the lively debate,

Ursa..

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