On 2 Sep 2003 12:05:00 GMT, Brian Sandle
posted:

In sci.agriculture Dean Hoffman wrote:
On 8/24/03 9:13 AM, in article ,
"Brian Sandle" wrote:

Some cut.

The folks are stariving because they cannot pay the world market
prices for the food, because they do not have work. There are
surpluses of food.

The cost of the actual raw materials going into food aren't the real
problem. Transportation and packaging add more to the cost in many cases
than the actual foodstuff. The USDA used to have an online chart showing
how much money a farmer got compared to the consumer cost. I think there's
about 2¢ U.S. worth of wheat in a loaf of bread, for example. I'll try to
find it if you're interested.

So it cannot be said that agriculture is the major stumbling block
in getting food to the poor.

Well yes, if the starving people can't grow their food. That's
agriculture.

Whereas there was competition between various types of weeds before,
Roundup has killed ones except those which it can't and those now
have a free reign.

There were some weeds that weren't controlled very well at all before
Roundup. Common dog bane is one example. It's tough to control even with
Roundup. There are chemicals other than Roundup that can be used in most
cases.

How often does the RR farmer have to buy those extras?

As often as needed. Nothing much has changed wrt to some weeds. Not
controlled well with glyphosate before RR crops and the same after RR
crops.

Crop and chemical rotation is accepted practice as far as I know.

Not as simple as just RR.

Huh? For weeds that are not well controlled with glyphosate?

You admit it depends on the economics. Roundup Ready is suppoed to
make it cheaper. But it hasn't because of extra applicaitons and
other herbicides required.

I've asked farmers on occasion if RR pays. There was a slight yield drag
with RR soybeans at first but I think the drag has been eliminated.

At cost of what? The plant has to make the RR detoxifier which takes
some of its energy. So where is that made up?

In not having to make some of the other thousands of proteins plants
make?

The
farmers would rotate RR beans into corn fields to help control the weeds
that multiply in continuous corn.

RR corn?

Read what was said. RRbeans are grown to control weeds with glyphosate
that are not easy to control with the corn crop, and which get a grip
of the land without the good control the glyphosate provides, or
that's how I read it.

Roundup ready beans have made a big change in my area, (Nebraska, USA).
Weeds used to be a real problem. Whole families of Latinos used to hand
weed the fields to get the weeds not killed by other chemicals or normal
tillage.

So what is their work now?

MacDonalds, or some other service industry.

It's not necessary to rogue beans anymore.

Dog bane may be escaping Roundup control. Now Roundup has killed
other weeds which used to compete with it is it not taking over
more?

Are there examples of weeds becoming rampant because something that
they were competitors with has been given a nudge?
I wouldn't have thought so, and would wonder it it matters much. A
non-crop plant is a non-crop plant is a weed.

The technological progress of GM is aimed at, and is achieving the
goal, of increased wealth of a limited group of technology
companies.

Well, corn farmers in the U.S. do not grow their own seed.

But they do in many countries, where agriculture employs more
people.

Well it's all to do with economic pragmatism.

Hybrid corn
came into use decades ago. Apparently, it's a good deal for them and the
seed companies. Several farmers in my area raise seed corn for the seed
companies. It's a hassle but it pays better than commercial corn.
I spend a lot of time in corn and bean fields. The fields are much cleaner
now than in the past due to better chemicals and farming practices.

Though the resistant weeds have fewer competitors and over some
years must be more of a problem.

Not if managed with suitable herbicides.

Some
farmers here no till their crops in. More are switching to no or minimum
till each year. Some don't cultivate at all. They just use spray to control
the weeds. That helps keep the organic matter up and the soil erosion down.

But as I posted no till has been happening here without GM, GM
being illegal still.

Only with herbicides, of course. Herbicide resistant crops make it
that much easier and actually possible in some cases.