In article , newsgroup wrote:

On Tue, 09 Sep 2003 10:47:45 -0700,
(paghat) wrote:

An additional bottom line is you can't repair damage poorly maintained
soils with this alleged quick fix, whereas if ongoing soil management
techniques are correctly followed, then no reason to even wish for the
quick fix.

You're missing the boat on this one. Somehow you want to hold the
intire compost tea industry responsible for irresponsible claims. CT
is a PART of a soil development and management system. It's a valuable
part of a sustainable and/or organic paradigm.

The PRIMARY claim of the WHOLE industry is that aerobic compost teas
prevent pathogens. There is zero evidence this is so. Atop this
irresponsible claim of the ENTIRE industry are selective claims of other
untrue or unproven values divied up between many vendors. The plain fact
is there is no one selling this in all honesty. To do so would turn the
majority of potential marks, er, customers away, & toward mulching with
composts instead -- better efficacy, without the the potential harmful
side effects.

Shit girl quit being so fing angry. Now that Pam and Vic are poking at
you you'll undoubtedly ramble on endlessly about how ****ed up CT and
it's proponents are. So be it. I could care less if my 5 years of
successes have no value to you or Chalker. (there's more than a little
behind the scenes politics there!).

It is so damned easy to have a successful garden that you "blaming" your
success on the ONE thing that that the science shows has little or nothign
to do with it is just you being ridiculous.

CT remains a tool to regenerate and develop soils.

A choice that is inferior to topcoating with mulch & proper watering. A
choice that is temporary at best. A choice that is unnecessary if soils
are otherwise properly managed, & useless if the soils need repair & are
wetted with teas instead of finally properly managed.

The CONTROLED studies show that normal watering has the same effect as
watering with compost teas. That is NOT to say that outcomes are lousy
with compost teas, only to say the teas had nothing to do with those
outcomes. If your gardening methods are otherwise sound, you're doing
neither harm nor good with it, it's totally beside the point. If you
wasted good money on "aerobic brewing" equipment, & really spent the last
five years using that expensive & stupid equipment, I can see that
emotionally it would be hard to face the peer-reviewed data that indicates
you not only allowed yourself to be duped for the price, but wasted a lot
of time for a lot of years that could've been spent gardening instead.

It remains a tool
in taking dead soils and reintrodcuing biological competition.

But does so less effectively than quality compost & regular watering, & in
no sustained manner without doing what is ACTUALLY necessary, maintaining
the organic material in the soil, & moistening it. Using teas instead of
moist organic material leaves out the most essential part, the organic
material, so does less rather than more for the soil. And if used "in
addition" to the proper method, unecessarily duplicates the better
practice, & in some cases could even result in overfertilizaion & collapse
of microorganism population.

You are
concerned about glyphosate damaging soils and at the same time
unwilling to listen. That brilliant steel trap is now closed.

No, I seriously wanted to believe this isn't a fraud; I've made & used
teas myself; I've read a great deal about them. It slowly became obvious
that EXCLUSIVELY the vendor literature supports it, the science does not,
& the vendor's preference for aerobic teas is the worst of all choices
(non-aerobic having a FEW indications of value in OCCASIONALLY suppressing
some pathogens in some plants, in unpredictable manners -- the aerobic
stuff vendors advocate doesn't even have that little bit of validity!) If
you can see the citations & compare the sources & still you NEED to
believe you haven't wasted your time & money on this stuff, it's you who
are unwilling to embrace the reality that not every fad is effective
merely for being organic.

If you'd said it works as a fertilizer then I'd agree, but you're sticking
to that mistaken idea that it's the best way to up the microorganism count
of the soil. THAT effect doesn't even last a week, & the maximum possible
microorganism count is achievable with organic compost & regular watering,
sustained by slow release actions, not by rapid alleged fixes. Get real.
Don't be a dupe.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/