Alan Walker wrote:
OK, Jim, I'll bring my comments over here, too. Maybe we should import the
other relevant posts as well? SNIP
The commentary began with Raymon's questions and commentary about the role of
collectors of "finished" bonsai vs. those who create bonsai. As usual, the discussion
has digressed into other areas including into the age old, "Is it art?" conundrum. ;-)
Below are other relevant posts as promised.
Alan Walker, Lake Charles, LA, USA
http://LCBSBonsai.org http://bonsai-bci.com
--------------------------------------------------

I did mention that I would post this comment of Darren's separately, because I
think it would make for some stimulating input.
I quote "for the most part we can stand up and say that we produced those trees
ourselves", where Darren insinuated that I don’t style my own trees and rely on
purchasing finished trees, as if this makes me inferior. Darren probably had the yew
that I purchased from Kevin Wilson in mind although I did take home a yamadori Hawthorn
as well (pics posted to make this post legal).
I think that Darren’s comment provides a stimulating topic of discussion. Other
than the immense and varied pleasures derived from bonsai, my aim for my own collection
is to obtain the best quality trees that I can possibly collect or afford, even if this
means purchasing or collecting only one tree every year or two. Unfortunately for my
pocket, my sybaritic character does not allow me to settle for just anything, and I
admit that I make large financial sacrifices to improve my collection. I set myself
exacting standards that I admit are extreme, and will not hesitate to replace a tree
that I may have put a lot of work into, if I find something even better.
It is not always possible to collect quality material, so we often have to
obtain trees from other collectors or vendors who are fortunate enough to have access to
species of the quality we seek. I have collected and given away at least 60 cork oaks,
some of them very good, yet I paid somebody for a virgin yamadori, because it was the
best I had seen.
We can spend a considerable amount of time and money traveling to search for
material, with no guarantee of finding something that fits our parameters (last year
collecting trips to Scotland, Soria and Oviedo produced expenses of around £3,000 and no
trees.) I, like many, would much rather the satisfaction of finding my own virgin
material or, as a second option, purchase it, but as I am seeking the absolute best,
sometimes, as in the case of Kevin Wilson’s yew, the owner has already done some or most
of the styling work. As my one purchasing rule is based on quality, all other
considerations are secondary. In my case, I am happy to combine the traits of a
straightforward collector of bonsai with those of a collector who enjoys styling his own
material. Ok, so in some cases I will miss out on the pleasure of creating from scratch,
but this is offset by the pleasure that owning a very special and individual piece
brings. I hope that with time, experience and some advice from other artists, I will one
day also create one or two special pieces.
Some artists enjoy the creation process, yet once the styling is completed to
their satisfaction, they are happy to sell on. Then there are the straightforward
collectors, who do none of the styling or routine maintenance on their trees. If this is
the way they wish to enjoy bonsai, then good for them. Many of the great Japanese trees
might have been lost or spoilt, were it not for collectors like these who could afford
to pay for top quality material and have it looked after by artists who did the trees
justice. As long as a straightforward collector is honest and doesn’t claim the laurels
for the work or artistry of others, then that’s fine. To me both the “creators” and
“collectors” approach to Bonsai are equally valid. I think the majority of us are
probably a combination of the two. Most of us will have purchased trees styled by others
or had other artists help to style and develop our trees, at some stage in our bonsai
development.
It would be nice to know other people on the forum’s opinions, as Darren implied
that as I only owned other people’s creations -an incorrect and deliberately misleading
statement at the time, particularly as he has seen other acquisitions I have made- this
somehow made pure collector’s opinions less valid. Some of the best sports coaches have
never practised the sport they coach, some art or book critics have never written a book
or produced a work of art, yet their opinions whether right or wrong are respected by
their peers.
Regards to all,
Raymon
--------------------------------------------------

Actually, I didn't mean that at all, but you are absolutely right; it is an
interesting topic for discussion!! So, for what it is worth, here is my 2P's worth :-
I would not argue with you in any way that Bonsai needs both collectors and
artists, as you say, if you look at the way things are structured in Japan, most trees
are owned by collectors, and they take them to artists to be worked on and both parties
are honoured in different ways .
Why should bonsai be any different to any other branch of the arts, people
collect paintings, etc... The only difference I guess is that a bonsai collector must
have knowledge of trees and of bonsai - you, for example, Raymon have an extremely good
eye for trees (to be honest I don't know you or your trees well enough to know if you
are a collector or an artist!!)
To put my comments into perspective - I personally enjoy that bit of the art of
Bonsai that is creating something from completely raw. I do know people though who would
rather buy a "finished tree" and maintain and refine it and others who have workshops
with known artists to improve their trees. Are any of these things not valid? I don't
think so.
However, where do you draw the distinction between collector and artist? I have
trees in my collection which were initially styled at workshops but have since been
restyled by me; are they my work? If you buy a tree and refine and improve it, does it
become your work? I don't know the answer to that one. Can you see "little dragon" ever
being "yours"? Just a thought .......
I do agree that honesty is a pre-requisite; it is poor form to collect and pass
off others' work as your own. I have to admit I am really pi&$ed off that I can't go
down to Kev's anymore and stare at the "little dragon", but I respect your eye, and if
you have had to make sacrifices to own it , GOOD!!!!!!! Only kidding !!
C ya
Darren


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