On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:28:38 +1300, Peter Huebner
wrote:

In article ,
says...
Did you take a look at how much time was spent on this project? I
don't doubt it took every minute he admitted to. If you think self
suffiency is for you think about the amount of effort just to grow
enough food to starve.
snip

I think this is a very good summing up. I took part for nearly three
years in a project that was 4 people on some 200+ acres trying to live
self sufficiently.
You work work work work work, and you get absolutely nowhere, fast.
You just can't grow your own grains - unless you have a bunch of people
and suitable land, make cheese, sugar, beer , have a sufficiency of
fruit and veg all year round (even in Northern New Zealand) and even
growing your own potatoes for all year round is a pretty hard slog
without help.
snip

Good to hear from someone who's been there. I believe one person
*could* be "self-sufficient" for at least a few years in an area rich
in 'wild' foods and with a very mild climate. But even Robinson
Crusoe salvaged some pretty nifty stuff from his shipwreck. :-)

Whether in a single or group situation, true self-sufficiency would
seem to require a *whole* lot of work -- unremitting toil, in fact.
And no days off. Complain as we do about industrialized food
production, economies of scale and specialization *do* make a
difference. We laugh about our US$5 tomatoes, considering cost of
plants, boughten-dirt, fertilizer, water, and labor to bring one
forth, but it's not far off in many cases. How much space and time and
labor (and luck with bugs!) does it take to produce a pound of dried
beans?

The pioneer ideal notwithstanding, most pioneers were in it for the
land and hopes of subsequent monetary success, not an Eden-like
existance. You *always* need money for the things you don't/can't
produce. Try paying for a pair of glasses or boots with tomatoes!

The Bucket person hasn't been back, as far as I've seen. So we have no
idea of what he actually meant by "self-sufficiency." At least it's
generated a lot of interesting posts and references.