"George Cleveland" wrote in message
On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 10:11:46 +1100, "Fran"
wrote:

What I am objecting to is that both you and George are putting forward
information that was NOT in the original post (and Lord knows how off
beam
into realms of pure fantasy this thread has moved from the simple
question
originally asked!)

My observation that the "slant towards isolation is a bit worrying" comes
from this:
"This would involve one person living alone, in decent physical
condition, willing to do hard work and learn whatever is needed."

Yep, he sure did say that, but living alone does not equate with being a
"slant towards isolation". All he said was to give details of his personal
circumstances of being a person who will be "living alone".

I'm sure you will have heard in the news or on current affair programs, that
one of the the fastest growing households in the western world is that of
the single people dwelling. There are more now than ever before and it
looks like the trend is increasing. I know a lot of people in this
situation (and more the older I get) and none of them could be considered to
be at all isolationst. Some are happy to live alone and some are not and
are desperately seeking a partner, but isolationst?????? Most definitely
not. They simply live alone because of a lot of reasons. Don't chose to
share, don't need (financially) to share, have lost a partner to death or
from divorce or some other reason, but not isolationist at all.

I even know a couple of fellows who live the sort of (almost) self
sufficient life that the asker has in mind and they are both very happy to
live alone and do not seem to be even be seeking a partner - both long term
bachelors and likely to stay so, but good for any dinner party or drinks
party or even for a drop round and share coffee and a gossip session type
occasion.

You have put in what YOU think he will (or should perhaps) do BUT not
what
he specifically said.

As far as telling him what to do I didn't.

I know you didn't tell him what to do. I was adressing Richard in that
specific comment as that is to whom I was replying. I only objected to you
assuming that if someone says they will be "living alone" that you assume
they have a "slant towards isolation"

I don't have the info.

I agree :-)) hence my comment that you (and Richard) were making
assumptions.

I just
opined that it shouldn't take much land or time to be self sufficient in
food. Where I did go off into my own subjective world is when I assumed
his
motivations for doing it were similar to others I've known who've tried
comparable things. Some suceeded, some failed. But all were motivated by a
dissatisfaction with the way life is normally led in the "West". Perhaps
his motives are different.

Perhaps they are very different but at this stage we don't know and may
never know. He may just love the peace and quiet of his own land and have
the sort of personality that likes to do as much for themselves as they
possibly can because he may find it both interesting and fulfilling. On the
other hand, he may be barking mad and could end up taking pot shots at his
neighbours. We just don't have enough info to make those sorts of
judgements.

He did not mention that he would be doing the building. He may or he may
not but it cannot be read into what he wrote.

It is not unusual for people in both NZ or Aus to have even a fairly
traditional builder come in and build an off grid house that includes
items
like slow combustion cooking stoves (which also heat the hot water),
composting toilets, water collection from roofs etc etc. Even if one is
not
off grid, it is still quite common in rural areas to have electricity but
to
still use solid fuel for cooking water heating (for at least part of the
year) and tank (cistern) water for the whole of the year.

I grew up on a farm in Wisconsin that was just that way. With the
exception
of using ground water for tank water and outdoor privies for composting
toilet (eventually replaced by a home septic system).

I still partly live this way and I don't find it very arduous at all. I
have a septic system (although I grew up using an outdoor privy) and we use
ground water for flushing but tank (cistern) water for drinking and I use a
wood burning range in winter for hydronic heating, hot water and cooking.

With modern building techniques and good trades people it is very easy to
have the best that "old fashioned" living offered without the inconvenience
that our mothers put up with. I much prefer food cooked in (and on) a wood
stove as the taste is far better than the same recipe cooked in a gas or
electric oven. I don't know what the difference is but it is tangible.