Robert Sturgeon wrote:

On 27 Dec 2003 15:06:03 GMT,
(Frank White) wrote:

snipped the un important stuff

We're talking about a complete and total breakdown
scenario, here, something that shuts down all commercial
and government operations and lasts for years. And
while I'm sure that, eventually, we'd get the oil
pumping, the refineries producing, and the transport
network going again in such a case, it could take a
LONG TIME.

You can call me a raving optimist if you like, but my honest
best guess is that it will always take less time to restart
oil refineries and an economy to support them than to
refurbish steam engines, learn to use them and put them to
efficient use.

If you want to sit around and not do anything until
gas starts being delivered to your local filling
station again, no matter how hungry you get, fine with
me. Or if you have a oil well in your back yard and
the knowledge and ability to crack the crude down, or
you can produce bio-diesel, that's fine too. As for
me, if it's a matter of starving, farming by hand
and horse, or firing up a steamer, I know which *I*
am going to do.

YMMV

Our mileage will be the same. We're guessing which scenario
is the more likely and which planning makes the most sense.
You are certainly welcome to fiddle with your steam engines
or whatever you're doing. In my honest opinion, people who
do that are pursuing a hobby, like archery or going to
renaissance fairs, SCA gatherings, whatever. The survival
aspects are so minimal as to be insignificant. But survival
is a good excuse for the expenditures.


I have start looking around for substitutes for Diesel fuel and
lubricants for machinery. Well low and behold I found a sub
that grows well in the high deserts of Oregon and doesn't need
that much water

The RAPESEED produces an oil that is a direct substitute for
diesel fuel. From what I understand it can be used directly
but it is really dirty. If you put the oil through a process
of fractional distillation (I guess the old booze still will
have more than one use) it cleans up very nicely.

According to the Oregon State University agricultural extension
service we should expect to get 1200 lbs of RAPEseed per acre in
an average year.

When the seed is expressed for oil the oil recovery is about
10% by weight. So 1200 lbs of Rapeseed will yield 120 lbs
(20 gallons) of low quality diesel fuel. I suspect that through
fractional distillation we would probably get 18 gallons of
fuel per acre and 1 to 1.5 gallons of lubrication oil.

The distilled Rapeseed oil would also provide oil for lamps for
lighting.

So if we plant 100 acres of Rape seed we could expect to get
1800 gallons of high quality diesel fuel.

The Independent


--
Robert Sturgeon,
proud member of the vast right wing conspiracy
and the evil gun culture.