Andy Rutledge wrote:
snip
--------------
Craig, I have never said nor even suggested that wealthy collectors are the
hightest manifestation of bonsai owner. Are you now making things up in
order to paint my thrust in a negative light?
Not at all. But I at least see this implied, and in my view it's a short walk
from your position to explicitly stating the above. But no, you didn't state
it explicitly, and I'm sorry if you took it that I was saying so.
That's rather malevolent,
isn't it? I hope you realize that we're not political opponents and there's
no need for demagoguery.
Of course not. I don't engage in demagoguery, I have no interest in purposely
antagonizing you or anyone else, and I don't see you as an opponent or a bad
person, just someone with whom I have some disagreements. I like to debate,
Andy, and this is something I have an opinion on.
In reference to affluent arts patrons, I have lamented the fact that our
community does not welcome them - a significant reason for the fact that
there are few of them.
You see, this is where I find the fallacy--a simple cause and effect argument.
You seem to see this dearth of collectors/non-enthusiasts as being caused by a
blindspot in the vision of bonsai organizations. I see it as a function of the
extreme youth of the bonsai community in this country and in the West in
general. I also see it as a function of our society and it's rampant
individualism, which at times, I must admit, irritates me.
One kind of enthusiast is no "better" than another.
The fact that affluent collectors can contribute more to the economy of an
endeavor and expand the scope of enthusiasm (from a different direction) is
a simple fact. This sort of participation is something that the endeavor in
the U.S. does not currently enjoy to any significant degree.
See my comments above. It will undoubtedly happen in time, but hasn't happened
yet. As parents we both know that six-month old babies are not ready to walk.
snip
--------------
Please see my separate post from earlier today on my
own gradual effort to have a local bonsai exhibit sponsored by a local
arts
society.
--------------
Excellent. I hope it works out well. Keep us updated.
Will do. As I explained in the other post, I don't have the wherewithal to put
on a bonsai exhibit on my own, but I may be able to persuade a couple of Yama
Ki members to put on an exhibition with me, perhaps later this year if I can
swing it. Mike Pollock, are you out there??? The viewing stone exhibit I saw
as a way of testing the water for a general view of seeing natural art as real
art. As you have pointed out in previous comments, there seems to be, in at
least a part of the arts community, a prejudice against something natural being
art. So, this will be a way of taking advantage of what seems to be a
favorable environment.
--------------
I can't honestly belive that a person who has made a financial
commitment to pay someone to maintain a bonsai collection would have no
interest in watching demos, hearing lectures on various aspects of bonsai,
etc. Maybe if he did he would learn something--like how to pinch a
juniper,
perhaps.
---------------
snip
Art collectors don't
necessarily have any interest in learning how to "do" the art. They instead
COLLECT the art.
No, they don't, but it seems to me that a person who is more that just someone
who picks up interesting stuff at a yard sale might also be interested in
learning about the art. Are you honestly saying that art collectors are people
who blindly buy up art because someone else says that it's good art? I
certainly hope not. People are drawn to a particular style of art, or even the
work of a particular artist, because of the way they do something.
In terms of bonsai, when people see my trees, or even if they haven't seen them
but know I do bonsai as a hobby, they are interested in two things--what's my
oldest tree and how do you do bonsai. Very little variation.
What about this is so difficult for you to understand?
Why must we all be bonsai participants for the same reasons and in the same
manner? There's nothing "wrong" with these people. They simply have a
different mode of involvement in the community. I hope you can rewire your
mind with regard to this concept.
---------------
My mind doesn't need rewiring, Andy, except in the area of improving my
short-term memory so I can remember where I last put my checkbook or car keys.
We all have frameworks within which we think, and I see nothing wrong with the
way I think. Now who is engaging in demagoguery or malevolence? ;0}
My general, underlying opinion in this whole area is this: In order to advance
the art of bonsai, I feel it is necessary for it *not* to be elitist. The more
people who are involved, the better. The more we can do to dispell the still
commonly-held view that there is an Asian "secret" to bonsai that only
initiates know, the better off we all are. This is related to the separate
thread on Zen, and Peter Aradi's concern that "Zen" is heavily misused as a
term to describe something sublime. There is no mystery or "zen" in bonsai in
terms of how to do it. I think we agree on that. The difficulty in our
understanding each other's positions is that we may be approaching from
different directions.
Also, why is competing in a contest the highest level of bonsai for some?
---------------
Again, you're misconstruing the point. It is not "the highest" level of
bonsai.
You missed the "for some."
It is simply a facet of our endeavor that here in the U.S. is done
very poorly and with ridiculous methods. I merely ask that we redefine our
approach. Why is this so difficult to consider?
---------------
Well, you've already given your reason, but don't assume that it is
crystal-clear to everyone else. For me, I just don't agree.
Craig Cowing
---------------
Now this I can understand and take at face value. Yes, perhaps you simply
disagree with my thrust. Fair enough. But please don't deform my arguments
so that you can more easily argue against them. Thanks.
Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas
I don't intend to deform your arguments, Andy, just point out the garden path
that they can lead us down. There is a difference.
One last statement: I see nothing wrong with a person who collects bonsai but
has them maintained by someone else. To my mind this is no different than a
well-off person hiring someone to do their gardening for them. But when it
comes to exhibiting a bonsai, especially in a competitive exhibition, I feel
the attribution should be given to the artist who maintains the tree as well as
the owner. This is no different than an art collector loaning his/her
Rembrandt to the Metropolitan, and having the attribution go to Rembrandt, not
the collector. This can also advance the art of bonsai by making that
particular artist's work better-known, and give them more clients.
Besides, who wouldn't want to show off a tree styled by John Naka or Nick Lenz
or Colin Lewis?
Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37
************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Mark Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++