Craig,
I appreciate your responses here. Perhaps we can begin to clear up some of
our misunderstanding and discriminatory views... (the last point at the end
of this page is the most important, IMO)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Cowing"
You see, this is where I find the fallacy--a simple cause and effect
argument.
You seem to see this dearth of collectors/non-enthusiasts as being caused
by a
blindspot in the vision of bonsai organizations. I see it as a function
of the
extreme youth of the bonsai community in this country and in the West in
general. I also see it as a function of our society and it's rampant
individualism, which at times, I must admit, irritates me.
-------------
Okay, I'm not addressing the fullness of the issues surrounding the dearth
of bonsai art collectors. Rather, I'm addressing/discussing the one issue
that we have control over. It is ridiculous to believe that any one factor
is currently responsible for this situation. Of course our endeavor is
young in this country. However, unless we address "our house," no amount of
time will be enough for collectors to find a comfortable place in our
community. Please don't mistake my discussion focus for blinders. I've
never said that these things I cite are "the" reason. They are just what
"we" can do. I hope this helps to better explain my thrust.
-------------
No, they don't, but it seems to me that a person who is more that just
someone
who picks up interesting stuff at a yard sale might also be interested in
learning about the art. Are you honestly saying that art collectors are
people
who blindly buy up art because someone else says that it's good art? I
certainly hope not. People are drawn to a particular style of art, or
even the
work of a particular artist, because of the way they do something.
In terms of bonsai, when people see my trees, or even if they haven't seen
them
but know I do bonsai as a hobby, they are interested in two things--what's
my
oldest tree and how do you do bonsai. Very little variation.
--------------
Yes. Let me put it this way: I know several art collectors - people who
collect a particular art or style of art or works from a specific artist.
In every case, even though they are enamored of this work/art/medium, they
possess no inclination to try and acquire the skills/knowledge needed to
produce such things. They're enthusiastic collectors, not artists. This
would seem to be a very common tale in the arts world. Just because the
medium in question here is bonsai is no reason to think that everything
about the collectors is somehow different.
--------------
My mind doesn't need rewiring, Andy, except in the area of improving my
short-term memory so I can remember where I last put my checkbook or car
keys.
We all have frameworks within which we think, and I see nothing wrong with
the
way I think. Now who is engaging in demagoguery or malevolence? ;0}
--------------
:-) Yes. I'm being particularly pointed in my responses (today) because of
what I perceive attacks on my effort and my words. I'm quite happy to
discuss things in a civil and logical manner, but not in the face of
distortions and misapplied quotes/characterizations. I'll be happy to
respond in kind to your end. I hope that we're done with the pointedness.
-------------
My general, underlying opinion in this whole area is this: In order to
advance
the art of bonsai, I feel it is necessary for it *not* to be elitist. The
more
people who are involved, the better.
-------------
This is great, but I again hope that you're not suggesting that anything
I've put forth has anything at all to do with elitism. You are in fact
contradicting yourself. You say "The more people who are involved, the
better," but you seem fully prepared to ignore/segregate collectors. Why?
I hope that you realize the important distinction between elite and elitist.
If you do not, you're not qualified to have this discussion. If you do, why
do you insist on characterizing the ADDITION of a group of enthusiasts to
our community as an elitist effort? By your own admission, the addition of
more enthusiasts is better. Does the fact that affluent enthusiasts can
afford to participate at a level different from your own or can purchase
bonsai art of a quality higher than someone else can bother you so much that
you lose perspective? "Elite" is great. "Elitist" is bad, derogatory and
inflamatory. There has been no mention of elitism here - except by you.
Class / income envy has no place in this discussion.
-------------
I don't intend to deform your arguments, Andy, just point out the garden
path
that they can lead us down. There is a difference.
-------------
Let me point out that whether or not you intend it, you've not so much
pointed out the logical path of what I've mentioned as you have pointed out
the logical path of what you've made up. Again, you've addressed your own
distorted view of my posit - not my actual posits. There's a difference.
I'm addressing your finishing statement in another message (Judged exhibit
lunacy)
Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com/palaver/main.htm
zone 8, Texas
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