On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 01:40:26 GMT, George Cleveland wrote:


On Sun, 18 Jan 2004 00:28:29 GMT, Alan Connor wrote:



In North America at present, including Canada, there are about 500,000 square
miles of mountain forests that are removed from major population centers
and in a climate that is cold-temperate or better.

Assuming 300,000,000 people in the U.S. and Canada, and that 5% of those
people can make it to, or are already in, the Rockies (etc.), that gives these
areas a post-Collapse population density of approximately 30 people per
square mile, or about 20 acres apiece, back-to-back.

(your neighbor will be able to hit your house with a thrown rock from their
front porch)


(these areas include a lot of grasslands, too, but are predominantly forested)


In these conditions, only a survival group that can remain inconspicuous will
have a chance of avoiding continual battles with refugees or roving bandits,
or continually running from them, and the only way to accomplish this is to
have a plant-based lifestyle.



If you HAVE to run, then you had better know your wild edible plants, of
which there are more than 1800 species in North America, because trapping
and hunting will SERIOUSLY slow you down...


AC

Why would a live by the skin of your teeth existence be preferable to
staying in your own neighborhood or town and working together with your
neighbors and friends?

Who said anything about a "skin of your teeth existence". It is possible to
live very comfortably with no animal products and in a camoflauged settlement.


As for staying with your friends and neighbors, well, if you live on a road,
then refugees and bandits will find you, easily, and you'll have to deal with
them.

(less so with a small, remote town, of course)


It is also very hard to be self-sufficient in a town and impossible if the
majority of people aren't prepared.

The resources generally aren't the land and trees and minerals and water.
(most municipal water systems will not survive and are very easy to sabotage,
giving
bandits a way to bring you to your knees)


Furthermore...What Collapse?

The one that pillaging the planet with a lifestyle that requires a large
under-class inevitably leads to.

Like the Great Depression.


That's all the Collapse is, a Great Depression in a world with too many
unhappy people that lacks the resources and social cohesivenss to recover.

It is the Final Depression.


AC