Terry Collins wrote in
:

Ivan McDonagh wrote:

SNIP

"Organic" to me is a system of certification and thus something is
"organic" if it is certified to be organic. End of story.

Some farmers are making a living being organic famrers. End of story
about cost, etc. So that answers your question in the subject.

Oh yes! I'm not arguing at all against those people who can do it - I
honestly believe that if it was possible for all farms to be independent
of factory fertilisers then that would be best.



Okay, we are forced to live in a capitalist world and the capitalist
world just exploits resources to enable some people to maximise the
amount of money they make at the expense of other people and the
environment.

Although I agree to a certain extent with your statement I don't think I
used that point as a thesis. If I did it was completely unintentional -
much as I dislike the fact, I have accepted that I am living in a
capitalist country and that not everything that is done in the name of
capitalism (or any other form of politics-ism) is necessarily good for
the world.

SNIP

So, if a farmer wants to do what is right by the environment, they
then have to pay for cartage of that organic matter back to his farm,
which for most means that the costs of farming inputs are too high and
they would not have a commerically viable farm. Note, that book was
written in 1948 and transport infrastructure has greatly changed since
then.

This is one of the points that the book makes as I'm sure you know. I'm
aware that transport infrastructure has changed since then but so has the
requirements of a commercially viable farm. That is, as the population has
continued to grow we have either of more product per hectare being required
or more hectares being required. In either event, it seems to me that
whatever cost efficiencies have been gained in transport will be lost
through the greater bulk of material being used.


Instead, farmers tend to produce organic matter on the farm by growing
other crops, e.g, sub-clover with crops to directly provide nitrogen,
pastures that stock eat and defecate, etc.

I wasn't aware that this is large-scale practise. Thanks.

SNIP

From the snipped advice regarding composting, I also compost what I can and
am looking at getting in grass clippings and chook manure to build up the
sand that I currently have.

Perhaps I erred by mentioning the book but I wanted to be clear that I was
not being "anti-organic" and that my questions had, at least, a reasonably
sensible basis.

Ivan.