"mf197421" wrote in message
...

Im sorry, but it isnt really believable that a single species could
possibly have as monumental an effect on the environment as the one you
describe.

No, I'm sorry, but you are wrong on this point. If you would like to get in
contact
with ANY Parks & Wildlife people here in Australia, they could give you
chapter and verse about the destruction cats cause.

A friend just came back from a visit to Israel where the
majority of cats are actually feral and she didnt notice any extensive
destruction of the wildlife and the landscape (which, mind you, is
mostly man-created and therefore quite sensitive).

The assumption that because feral cats dont have an effect on
the environment in Israel (Something I would seriously question) THERFORE
they wont have a devastating effect on the Australian fauna is a very flawed
assumption to make. Completely different evolutionary paths for each
ecology.

It's a bit like saying 'My dog is black, therefore all dogs are black'. Not
very smart....

There is a large section of land that has been fenced off in Western
Australia to safe-keep the last breeding population of one of the small
marsupials (One of the Pademelons, or Bettongs??), and the main purpose of
that fence is to keep feral cats out. There are Native fauna people who
patrol that fenced area daily to ensure cats are not entering the breeding
area, and any cat seen in the area is shot on sight. Those people (who work
for one of the environmental agencies in Australia) see cats as THAT big a
threat to the success of the breeding program.
If you want to read one of Douglas Adams's books; 'Last Chance to see', and
in particular the section about the Kakapo parrot in New Zealand. These
(now-flightless) parrots had no predators for most of their evolution(and so
lost their need to fly), and their method of defence in encountering a cat
is to lie still on the ground. They simply dont know what to do, and can no
longer fly to escape. The only way of keeping this animal off the extinct
list was to transport a breeding population to an island, and ruthlessly
kill every introduced predator that might come near them. This included
cats, rats,
and I think one other type of introduced predator. These beautiful parrots
are a hairs-breadth away from being gone, and it is only due to the
dedication of a team of conservationists involved in this project that the
Kakapos are likely to survive.
Would you like more examples??? Nearly every country in the world has a
similar project, with the same preparedness to kill introduced animals to
protect
an endangered species.

My point in my previous post was that your view about life being sacred
doesnt
work when you introduce an animal (like the cat) into an environment that
has
evolved without a similar type of predator. Nearly all of the land-based
predators
that evolved in Australia (The dingo was introduced some many thousands of
years
ago, and its impact is still hard to assess) are marsupial, and have quite
low birth
rates compared to cats. The cat was introduced, and not only can it
out-breed any
of the native predators, but it is capable of eating quite a few of them as
well. The
effect is a huge reduction in the native populations of some very exotic
marsupials,
birds and even some types of frogs. This then starts to cause an effect all
the way
through the ecosystem.

The justification of *our* right to regularly kill cats on the grounds
that *they* are predatory is even less convincing (I guess you consider
death by injection or gas of millions of cats a prettier sight than a
cat catching birds to eat.)

Sorry??? I dont recall suggesting we go on a cat-slaughtering rampage and
kill every moggy on earth! What I was trying to get across was the killing
of the few cats we do catch was a very small sacrifice to keep our precious
wildlife we have here in Australia. I havent once suggested that killing a
cat was by any stretch of the imagination a 'prettier sight' than anything.
I do agree with you that killing ANY living animal shouldnt be an action
that is done without thought, but we here live in an environment where the
cat is a problem. Simply wishing the problem away wont halt the loss of our
native wildlife.
A live Rainbow bee-eater perched in a tree IS a much prettier sight than a
cat raiding their breeding burrows in an earthern bank. They are one of the
many animals that do suffer from predation by cats.

Apart from that, there isnt much in your posting explaining why its
necessary to systematically kill cats, much less why this does not
raise moral or humanitarian questions. All you do is just try to give a
sense of why you dont find cats cute. You dont need to give any
justification for that.
As for your question whether we must let them live just because they
are alive, the answer is simply yes unless there is a serious reason
forcing us to do otherwise. According to our values (at least the
Judeo-Christian ones) all life is sacred and one must have good reasons
to take it away. (For instance, with the Cane Toad to answer your
question, I might have no other option if it threatens me and my
family. There is no such danger from stray cats.)

I'm not even going to touch the whole religous values thing; too many
thorns there.
As far as the Cane Toad is concerned, I am glad you are not in charge of
halting the spread of these insidious creatures across mainland Australia.

Anyways, one must realize that a decision to kill is a serious matter.
I didnt see any such seriousness in the message to which I originally
replied.

Yes, but my reading of the same posting was the OP was simply being
pragmatic about an act that occurs frequently enough for them to be familiar
with what to do. I didnt read anything that suggested they were
thoughtless, callous or making light of it. If they had suggested they were
torturing the animal, or causing it unnecessarry pain or suffering, I would
think otherwise. From what I read, they were doing exactly what our Parks &
Wildlife service would dearly love most people in Australia to do.


I suspect that the main idea behind your arguments is that you just
dont like cats and that you are afraid of anything not completely
under your control in your property and its surroundings. Thats fine
but from that to trying systematically to eliminate stray cats is a big
step.

I hate to break it to you, but MOST of the animals in my life seem to run
their own show, and I'm just comic relief for quite a few of them. As I
stated previously, I dont hate cats at all. However, I hate what they do to
our environment when loose. As far as the 'big step', simply talk to any
expert on Australian fauna, and ask them how much effect do they think feral
cats have had. I'd love to be there to hear the reply...


In any case, you might want to try to find out why your emotions on
this issue are so intense. I dont think the topic warrants such
intensity.

Ahhh, but you do! You thought the OP was thoughtless and callous when it
came to taking the life of a wandering cat. You felt they had demonstrated a
disturbing lack of consideration for the animals welfare.
Lets face it; your values dont translate over here. You expressed concern
about an Australian poster in an Australian news group, and yet you know
little about the country you wish to force your beliefs on.

I prefer to live in my cat-free environment, where the notorious bum-patting
Toiletto Frogoli terrorises people attending the outside loo. Where the
Red-Tailed Black Cockatoos spend most of their days citicising our laundry
hanging on the line, and where the Rainbow Bee-Eaters cavort overhead in the
mornings. Where a visit to the laundry is under the intense gaze of a
resting
Tawny Frog-Mouth Owl. Where the night-time floodlights are populated by
countless
Broad-Banded Sand Swimmers, and where a (supposedly diurnal) Shingle-back
lizard can chase his tail (he was trying to catch a grasshopper sitting on
it) in peace. Where the Willy-Wag-Tail can raise endless broods of chicks,
and where heavy rain is punctuated by the yapping of burrowing frogs
desparately
seeking a single female with view to wild sex and no commitment...

If I have to kill a few cats to keep these things, then so be it...

Cheers,

Rod.....Out back.