On Tue, 18 May 2004 00:00:14 GMT, Mark & Shauna wrote:

Frogleg wrote:

It is *good* that people are experimenting with new/old methods, and
doubtless some successful techniques will percolate into the
mainstream. Look at how composting has become virtually ubiquitous in
home gardening. Success can't be argued with. But success has to be
measured in *real*, practical improvement. For good or ill,
agriculture is driven by the marketplace.

No,
We use no till where the consumer is unwilling to pay the extra it
costs for quality in the current marketplace. It can be likened to a
fine furniture craftsman selling his wares. You wouldnt expect him to
sell a hand crafted piece of furniture using conscientious materials and
resources, with his customers best interest in mind, for the same price
Walmart gets for a particle board computer desk in a box.

You clearly understand the economics, yet say the marketplace does
*not* drive production. It does, whether you like it or not. There are
more people who want low-cost goods and food than those who are highly
discriminating and can afford top dollar for perceived top quality.
Exaggerating for effect, your fine furniture craftsman can't make much
of a living if he produces one beautiful chair every 3 months and
tries to sell it for $5,000. The market for $5,000 chairs is extremely
limited. The craftsman may reasonably argue that his chair is far
superior to the 4 included in a tatty, machine-made 5-pc 'dinette
set', and that the price includes 3 months of labor, but if no one can
afford his fine work, he and his family will starve.

You write as if consumers were making choices to prefer inferior food
and goods, rather than preferring lower prices. You can't grab
customers by the throat and *force* them to pay a premium for what you
regard as a superior product. If/when there are enough consumers who
want and can afford organic foods, or if/when organic foods can be
produced as cheaply as non-, everyone will be eating organic foods.
*I* would like to compare specially-raised produce to common or
(non-)garden varieties, but I can't afford to.

We arent big enough to make our operation profitable
solely on commercially competitive produce and plants and our market is
to small in the organics to support us either. We have to blend the two
to be profitable but we sure as hell arent going to sell the quality
stuff for the same as GreenGiant produce. It just aint da same sh*t.

You *do* understand. The marketplace is driving your own practices.

We live in a society (US here) driven predominantly by low cost and low
quality food. In the case of the above scenario also by low quality
department store goods.

You can't change tastes by legislation or by telling people they
*should* be more discriminating.