"Stan The Man" wrote in message
...
In article , Sacha
wrote:
About two years ago we visited the locally famous garden of a friend of
mine
and in our company was an RHS diploma student in her mid-50s - very
intelligent woman, very - extremely - keen on plants. So - our hostess,
who is much older than I am, showed my husband a climbing rose of great
health and vigour and said "why has this never flowered?" Zero answer
from
RHS diploma-bearer but my husband said "because it's a Rosa Banksiae and
your gardener keeps cutting it back". Correct.

Then our hostess showed us her rather wonderful Camellias which were
mulched
with bark chippings by her elderly gardener who wished to cut down his
weeding time. In a small way, these Camellias and this garden are a bit
well known so "why are they going yellow?" she asked Ray. He explained
the
action of rotting bark. The RHS diploma holder had nothing to say and
later
admitted she knew nothing of this. On the whole of the tour of this
rather
large garden, diploma holder didn't know the names of many plants but my
husband recognised every one of them and identified others for the owner.
Even I knew the names of plants this RHS person didn't know.

My husband holds no diplomas, or certificates, but is a nurseryman of
over
50 years experience, has the guts to say "I don't know" when he doesn't
know, and can advise or help people within an enormous range of gardening
from sheer hands on experience over a long period. He has learned by
doing
in the days when a diploma to go gardening or grow plants for sale would
have been laughable.
NOTHING is a substitute for a keen ear and eye, a genuine interest, a
lack
of self-interest versus a love of plants and a large dose of humility,
carefully applied, as a mulch. Please, for your own sake, do NOT be
convinced by bits of paper alone and don't endorse or dismiss people on
those grounds, either. While I wouldn't dream of knocking those who work
hard to get a diploma or such qualification, I'll take experience over a
diploma any day when it comes to gardening and I always have.

So possibly you would agree with me that the combination of a diploma
AND experience would be the best of all possible worlds. Unfortunately,
those who have never been properly trained can never achieve both.

Simon

No Simon, And I speak as someone with the RHS and more.
One course I did is a 3 year full time course, with compulsory weekends
thrown in.
If you've read some of my comments in other threads, you may have seen the
ones pertaining to experience of mistakes I witnessed. Such as someone not
knowing which end is up when planting forestry trees.
Fair enough, they weren't "qualified"
So imagine my surprise to encounter the exact same problem when working
alongside someone who possessed a Capel Manor qualification, from which her
career was being launched!
Also, I do not possess a specific Garden Designer qualification, but I
recall working with someone who was at the time attending a prestigious
course here in London. It was like watching someone's brain slowly tick. It
was excruciating. That which I though common knowledge was like a revelation
to him... but not from me, he would only accept them once sanctioned by the
course. As for design stuff I had being working on my own and was very much
out of the ordinary, such as the use of maths, to this his response went
something on the lines of my needing the men with white coats.
Where the problem lies is that those without the piece of paper are denied
opportunities from which they could expand on their gift.
Off course slightly OT but even with qualifications there can be barriers.
Sad to say and I'm not comfortable revealing this, but when I first started
to work in London, it seemed to be automatically assumed that being Irish I
would not have the brain cells to cope with anything more than donkey work.
My qualifications, but British and Irish were assumed to be forgeries!
Annoying though that was, my innate teamwork instincts tended to take over
and so I would try to chip in if I saw mistakes being made. In some
instances, I was the only one in the firm with the actual experience, yet
the response to my advice was usually something along the lines of "shut the
f*** up and just bring in more stones/turf/whatever."
Furthermore, even as a self employed gardener, I've had customers who
readily assume I might not know how to do various things, or are mistrustful
of the information I extend, be that design or landscape, in spite of just
such things on my paper work and even in spite of my doing just such things
for their neighbours. What has occasionally happened is that I've arrived to
work and found a team of landscapers on site. Perhaps doing what I've
advised against. They are treated like gods of wisdom and me.. well let's
not go there. Then afterwards there are problems. Cement has being used
where sand should be and vice versa. Customer grumbles. I reveal the answers
and they're amazed, or somehow it's my fault that they went ahead and did
precisely what I warned them would not work, whilst ignoring what I said
would.
Sacha's account (above) has brought a huge smile across my face. I really
enjoyed the visit story. Being there, done that, waiting for the Tee-shirt.
I also have no problem with saying "I don't know" when that happens.
Waffling is not the answer!
As mich related with her plumbers story that training can be very suspect
indeed.

Patrick