"Warren" wrote in
newshfJc.90699$Oq2.50118@attbi_s52:


Landscaping fabric is porous, so the water should penetrate. (Sheets
of plastic that don't allow water penetration would be used to kill
everything under them by solarization.)

If you haven't done a good job of removing the perennial weeds under
the fabric, you're still going to be weeding all the time. They'll
come through the seams, and the holes you cut out for the plants, and
eventually the strong ones will work through the fabric which weakens
over time.

I wonder what kind of crazy weeds you have growing where you live. At
any rate, if you have such pernicious perennial weeds, you'd be best to
dispatch them before you lay down anything on top, as if landscape fabric
will not block them, newspaper certainly won't.

As for the nuggets, you're going to find that you can't lay them on
thick enough to hide the fabric underneath, and you'll need to replace

I don't know if this true or not as my installation is under the
recommended coverage depth of 3-4". I don't mind having bits of black
fabric peek through. Certainly the wind can blow the nuggets out of the
flower bed, I normally just fing them back prior mowing the lawn, but
even without doing so, the loss rate is hardly burdensome.

them at least every year. They won't help one bit in keeping weeds
down, either. But as they break down, and leaves and other organic

They are numerous university web pages that say mulches in general and
pine bark nuggets in particular are good for weed suppression. They do
not say if there is anything intrinsicly advantageous about pine bark
though. Landscape fabric installation instructions come with the
advisement to use a layer of mulch for UV protection of the fabric.
There are rumored to be some (newer?) carbon-black coated fabrics that do
not need additional protection. I certainly have not noticed any visible
degradation in currently exposed bits of fabric of my 2-3 year old bed
(which did come with the coverage advisement).

material falls in them, you're going to get weeds growing on top of
the fabric, and their roots are going to further compromise the fabric
-- especially when you pull those weeds out.

If the rate of your debris deposition is such that you are developing a
weed supporting layer of humus in a short time frame, then you should
forget about using landscape fabric and think about selling topsoil.

The last few weeds I picked off from my landscape fabric were growing
directly on the fabric with no soil to be remembered around them. If
there was any compromising of the fabric it was not immediately
noticeable. I had not bothered to weed the bed for 3 months or so, and
the 3-4(?) weeds I had found were about hand sized. They also were
easily picked off with a hand. I think they were all broadleaf. One or
more may have been a thistle, it was spiny and very juicy, but I'm not
really familar with thistle characteristics. As I was unwilling to look
for a glove at the time, I picked it off quite easily with my bare hand.

If the area you're looking at planting only has a few weeds now, get
rid of them now, and go from there. If it has a lot of weeds, I would
say forget about planting this summer. Remove what you can. Scalp the
rest. Then put down overlapping newspaper, 8 layers thick (in other
words, a layer of 4 sheets, with another layer of 4 sheets with no
matching seams). Cover with two inches of compost or a good soil with
a nice organic content. An inch of shredded bark mulch on top of that
will keep it from washing away.

Or you could buy some glass, lay it on top and kill everything. Build a
greenhouse when you are done.

By fall you should be able to get in there with a trowel or mattock,
and plant any bulbs, perennials or shrubs that are appropriate for
fall planting. Do the remaining planting in spring. If you really like
the look of the nuggets, put them down in spring over what's left of
the shredded bark that kept the soil from eroding. You'll need fewer
nuggets because you won't need to completely hid the shredded bark
under them.

You'll still have to do some weeding, but no more than you would if
you had used the fabric. And most of the weeds will be shallow rooted

I don't know what you guys did with your fabric that makes you say that.
My flower bed was over run with all sorts of growth. I just laid the
landscape fabric on top then about 2" or less of large pine nuggets.
Nothing grew from below (aside from the chive things mentioned before)
and anything that grows on top is picked off by hand whenever I feel like
doing so.

in the soil on top of the newspaper, and will come out with little
effort. Eventually the newspaper will decompose. The weed roots and
seeds under the newspaper will have died and decomposed, too (assuming

If you believe the propaganda from the Scotts company, this is certainly
not true of dandelion roots. If I recall correctly, there have been
instances of weeds growing from seeds after being dormant for 15 years or
more. If you're thinking that there's something that newspaper will kill
that landscape fabric will not, you are mistaken.

that you didn't just lay the newspaper on top of a bumper crop of
weeds without first pulling and mowing.)

Following this method will cost less than putting down expensive
fabric, and trying to keep it covered. As for time, if it's a small

Landscape fabric is hardly expensive at 3'x50' for $10. If you get
minimum wage and save 5 hours weeding, it pays for itself in labor
savings*. It certainly is less expensive than periodic applications of
herbicide. The DuPont landscape fabric package I have is guaranteed for
15 years when covered with at least 2" of mulch. The Weedblocker brand
package has an 'absolute' guarantee. If you had such a bad experience
and paid an exorbitant amount, perhaps you should try to get your money
back.

* Contingent on proper installation and not having crazy weeds

area, there isn't any difference. For a larger area, laying down the
newspaper is a little slower than rolling-out fabric. (Cover it with
the compost or soil as you go so it doesn't blow away.) But compared
to how much time and money you'd spend to keep the fabric from showing
through your nuggets, it's still a pretty good trade-off.

Buying a 2 cu. ft. bag of pine bark nuggets every 2+ years or so is
hardly what I would call burdensome or expensive.

BTW... Dirt is the crud that covers things that aren't clean. Soil is
what plants grow in.

Also know as 'dorm rug' and unless you are an epiphyte.