"Warren" wrote in
news:QgzJc.85786$%_6.50093@attbi_s01:

Salty Thumb wrote:

...
I don't mind having bits of black fabric peek through.

Personally, most of the time I'd find the green of the weeds to be
more atractive than bare, black fabric.

You probably could get away with growing a groundcover. I don't have
the competence or the commitment to do that yet.

If the rate of your debris deposition is such that you are developing
a weed supporting layer of humus in a short time frame, then you
should forget about using landscape fabric and think about selling
topsoil.

I use shreded bark mulch because it takes fewer bags to fully cover
the same surface area than nuggets. I can completely hide my newspaper
with less than an inch of shreaded. It would take at least 4 inches
with the nuggets. I know this because I started with nuggets in my
first bed, and quickly realized how much I'd need. (And the nuggets
are usually 25 to 50 cents a bag more than the shreded.)

I don't like shreded because I have a feeling they decay quicker. I also
don't like the look.

It doesn't take much to create a medium that weeds will grow in, and
their roots are going to work downward in search of more water. No
topsoil production is involved. I'll concede that if I went with 4" of
nuggets, there'd be far less of that, but many of my lower-growing
perenials, and all of my annuals deal with an inch of shreded mulch
than they would 4" of nuggets.

Yeah that's probably a big problem and one reason I why I don't use the
full 4".

I had not bothered to weed the bed for 3 months or so, and the 3-4(?)
weeds I had found were about hand sized.

How big of an area are we talking about? A mere 25 sq. ft., maybe? A
much bigger area than that, and I'd have to start thinking you're
exagerating.

I think 2 4x25" beds, so 200 sq. ft. I'm pretty sure I used just under
two 3'x50' rolls total but had overlaped the seams. Exagerrating about
what? The size of the weeds or length of time between weeding? The size
is no joke. The time was a guess, but should be pretty accurate. It's
not something I keep track of.

Landscape fabric is hardly expensive at 3'x50' for $10. If you get
minimum wage and save 5 hours weeding, it pays for itself in labor
savings*. It certainly is less expensive than periodic applications
of herbicide. The DuPont landscape fabric package I have is
guaranteed for 15 years when covered with at least 2" of mulch.
The Weedblocker brand package has an 'absolute' guarantee. If you
had such a bad experience and paid an exorbitant amount, perhaps you
should try to get your money back.

Okay. I'll give you that it's not very expensive. And that's exactly
why I don't try to get my money back. It's not worth the effort.

What effort, just write a letter and send in a receipt. If you don't
want the money, give it to charity. There's no sense in letting a
company profit from a crappy product.

Buying a 2 cu. ft. bag of pine bark nuggets every 2+ years or so is
hardly what I would call burdensome or expensive.

Assuming that you're only replacing 1" with that bag, it only covers
25 sq. ft., which is consistant with your comments about the number of
weeds you found. For an area that small, no, you're not going to have
much of a savings in time or money by using the method I outlined.
However, as one gets closer and closer to the bed space of a typical
suburban home, the differences in time, money, and effectiveness
become more apparent.

My nugget loss in nothing like you experienced. I figure a bag every few
years is enough. I throw strays back especially if it's a particularly
large nugget, but it's not like that's a lot.

You're saying laying newspaper, then mulch, not repeating after the
newpaper decays + weeding better feed weeds is less effort than laying
down landscape fabric and mulch once? You might as well skip the
newpaper and solarize the soil.

But then again if you don't mind the black fabric showing, then your
method may be less expensive. But I'm guessing that most people don't
find landscaping fabric to be very attractive.

Personally I find it more attractive than weeds, but I guess that's where
we differ.