On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 12:48:28 GMT, escapee wrote:

On Tue, 20 Jul 2004 06:25:36 GMT, (The Watcher) opined:


Uh, the fact that something happens after something else doesn't mean the first
thing CAUSES the second thing, does it? In that case, I must have caused it to
rain yesterday, since I went outside just before it started raining.

Everything reacts to something.

That doesn't mean everything causes everything that happens after it, though.
Logic requires proof. When you claim something is true, you're expected to prove
it. You could just try hinting that it's true like Moore does, but for most
people that isn't enough proof.

Our leader set up conditions for terrorists to
lash out.

Which leader is that? Since terrorists have been "lashing out" for centuries,
you must be talking about several leaders.

We are not talking about the weather and how random weather is.

No, we're talking about one specific claim of cause and effect.

We are talking about a specific event of a dullard saying "bring it on" while he
went fishing and golfing, and life went on as usual. They guy is one of the most
ignorant presidents in my lifetime.

Don't give up yet. There's still time.

It would if you wanted to discuss the military.
Anyway, back on the subject of those "kids".

Yeah, jump right back there because now you don't know how long I served or
where. Where did you serve?

In 15 years I served twice in Colorado, twice in Germany, once in Georgia, once
in California. I did my Basic Training at Fort Polk, Louisiana, and did assorted
other training at other bases like Lowry Air Force Base in Denver and Fort Ben
Harrison in Indianapolis.

What was your rank.

When I got out I was a Staff Sergeant(E-6), on the Sergeant First Class list.

Maybe we should consider anybody under 21 kids. We could take away their driving
privileges. We could stop letting them join the military. We could stop letting
them get married. We could stop letting them enjoy ANY of the rights adults
enjoy. No voting. No firearms ownership. Anybody here wanna try that? If you
really believe everybody under 21 is a "kid" seems like you should support that.

No, I didn't say that, but people like you think in terms of black and white.

I don't know about people like me, but I don't think in terms of black and
white. That's why I don't generally like emotional arguments like this "kids in
combat" one. That's a black and white argument.

What I'm proposing is that, we cease sending boys and girls into combat for fake
reasons.

Sounds good. While we're at it maybe we could cease sending men and women into
combat for fake reasons too.

We should put the current administration in prison for lying to the
world, the UN and for the fact that in all the many months after "Mission
Accomplished" we still have not found one shred of evidence that WMD exist in
Iraq,


Uh, weren't you paying attention to the news? They found Sarin and Mustard Gas
in Irag. Before we went into Iraq, Weapons of Mass Destruction were defined as
Nuclear, Biological, and CHEMICAL munitions. Both Sarin and Mustard Gas are
chemical munitions. I'd say that would constitute a shred of evidence that WMD
exist in Iraq.

If they're just "kids" they're not responsible enough to handle adult
responsibilities.
I joined the Army when I was 17. I wasn't the most mature 17-year-old, but I
learned quickly that I was part of a group that depended on me. I was surrounded
by a lot of other young MEN, most of them about the same age, and most of them
handled their responsibilities quite well. I spent plenty of time in lots of
different types of units with a lot of men(and some women) over 15 years, and I
don't think I served with too many "kids".

You don't consider 17 to be a kid?

Nope, not always. When I joined the Army I accepted the responsibilities of an
adult(most of them anyway-I still couldn't legally vote, drink, or buy a
handgun).

Geesh, I sure hope you don't have kids. The
problem is, the military sells a line of bullshit to kids in very poor areas of
the country.

Oh, were you a recruiter too?

Areas where college is only a thought, not a goal. They are told
they will travel all over the world and get college for free.

Well, I did travel over a LOT of the world, and did get the opportunity to go to
college. Nobody said it would be free, though.

All this while we
all know that anyone can get a student loan or grant for college in this
country.

I can tell you weren't ever a recruiter. If you think the GI college plan is the
only reason people join the military, that much is obvious.

I feel for you, soldier.

Former soldier. I left the Army about 12 years ago. I do miss it, but it is the
past now.

You don't sound like you were ever in combat. If you
were in combat, I think you may have PTSD and are in denial of the tragedy which
is war.

Thanks for the online diagnosis, but I think your diagnosis is badly mistaken,
since *I* didn't express MY opinion about the tragedy which is war. Sounds like
any opinions you're diagnosing are some you have inferred from somewhere.