On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 12:43:27 GMT, escapee wrote:

On Wed, 21 Jul 2004 04:39:45 GMT, (The Watcher) opined:

One of his biggest whoppers was his little cartoon of anti-gun propaganda.
During the cartoon(and elsewhere in the movie) he insinuated that people buy
guns because of fear. Some people do, but that's not the ONLY reason. Of course,
he didn't mention any other reasons, since other reasons might interfere with
his "mission". I own plenty of guns, and I didn't buy them out of fear.

While you have no way to determine why people other than you buy guns, this is
not a lie.

I can talk to them. In fact, I have talked to a lot of them, and I don't recall
EVER talking to anyone and hearing them say fear was their reason for buying
guns. I'll take their words over Moore's, since they haven't proven they're
liars yet.

It's a fact we have the highest mortality rate in the world as a
direct result of all the guns we have laying around.

A "direct result" of that? Interesting. I have about 20 guns "laying around".
I've had them laying around for years and haven't had any fatalities or even
injuries with them. Is something wrong with my guns?

That is not propaganda,
it's a fact. I had a neighbor, a cop in Austin tell me to go out and buy a shot
gun and a 38 in case. In case of what?

In case you have to defend yourself. You buy car, health, and life insurance,
don't you? You buy them in case you need them, or do you buy them because you
FEAR car accidents, illness and death?

Someone is going to storm my house?

Possibly. If someone decides to "storm" your house, or merely attack you, you
will have to decide what to do. Your choice is to either defend yourself or let
them do what they want. You may also want to dial 911, but until the cops
arrive, you're on your own. That's why the cop told you to arm yourself. The
police in the US have no legal or moral obligation to protect individual
citizens. The only person obligated to defend you is you, if you choose to do
it.

Why would he be driven to recommend that? He said it's for protection.
Protection from what? I live in an upper middle class, bedroom community in a
rural area. There's that, and I don't remember a cartoon about guns. I do
remember his factual reporting about how the NRA held their rally's in Columbine
the days after the shooting...and at other parts of the country. I saw the
leader of the NRA say something like, (paraphrase) you will have to take it from
my cold dead hand...when making reference to his rights to own a weapon.

Right, but the World Trade Center attack was planned for several years, probably
begun during the Clinton years, at least. Also, other terrorist attacks have
happened under other presidents, so this one isn't unique.

Have you read Richard Clark's book, or heard or saw him on the myriad interviews
he gave? This current administration was aware of it and did nothing. Rice
said in her testimony that info was regarded as "historical information." When
President Clinton went after Osama and started bombing, the political right
insisted it was wagging the dog because of the Lewinsky scandal.

Did you know your current president has drastically cut funds for Vets
hospitals, stateside?

Wouldn't surprise me. Every president does that in "peacetime".

That some Vets have to drive four hours to see a doctor
and it takes about 4 months to get an appointment?

Doesn't surprise me either. I first joined the Army in 1975, and I've seen many
of the benefits eroded since then, with many more on the block.

It doesn't look like they liked us much before George Bush became president.
They were attacking us before he became president, so it's quite a stretch to
claim his words "caused" more terrorist attacks.

So you don't think Bush's use of the term "crusade" was poor judgment? You
don't think Bush's mantra "God told me I'd be president so I could do this." It
doesn't tweak you at all that a man who doesn't believe in evolution is running
our country? That he is insisting Christianity be brought into these Muslim
nations? Sure terror attacks happened before. Nothing like the terrorist
attack we have launched on a country, Iraq, which has nothing to do with 9-11.
That, and the way this administration protects the Saudi's by having six secret
service officers guarding their embassy. What other embassy do we guard? None.

We guard every embassy as far as I know. BTW, I don't like Bush either. I don't
plan on voting for him either. I just don't think the fact that he's a bozo
makes Kerry any better.

Nope, I was just answering what YOU had posted. You had just denied that they
had not found a SHRED OF EVIDENCE that there were WMD'S IN IRAQ. I was pointing
out that they had. Don't you want to be shown when you make a false statement?
Would you prefer to continue to go around making a false statement?

The amount of chemical weapons found was hardly a reason to invade a country.
That should also be pointed out to you who didn't say they found so little it
wasn't considered.

The comment was that NONE were found. Since some were found it's obvious that
some were there, and I'd be willing to bet more are there. In fact, even
Saddam's own people admitted he buried tons of chemical weapons somewhere in
Iraq. Those weapons could be dug up later.
(snip)
We will probably disagree on many things, but we agree on one thing, the
soldiers should never, ever be harmed or put down or shunned for any reason.
They are doing their job, and that is torture enough.

It can actually be fun sometimes. I wouldn't have missed it for the world.