Permaculture and the internet/google is basically a dead end or a long
winded search.
But like most information that needs more than the 'spin' permaculture,
in theory form, does not work well on the internet (for me anyway)
What the internet/permaculture needs is visible examples to give it
strength, and inspire.

Below are the web sites I have found on permaculture or permaculture
related,
that offer more than 'I can sell you a pc' or have been designed badly/
have minimal information and do not give permaculture justice.

http://pathtofreedom.com/
http://www.diggers.com.au/
http://www.ata.org.au/
http://www.organicdownunder.com/
http://www.seedsavers.net/index.html
http://users.easystreet.com/ersson/

While I am not averse to reading,
I have over half a dozen permaculture books on my shelf, my wants from the
internet are different.
To me, the internet needs 'documented' examples and resource links.

Joining your local permaculture group, may assist you in keeping in touch
with what others are doing and resources,
but often they do have different approaches, live in different 'scenarios'
etc. It would be great to see more 'good' permaculture
examples being visible in the first 10 pages of a google search, but as one
of you did point out, not everyone has the knowledge
or resources to aquire this 'status'. And quite possible, those who practice
permaculture do not always have time or resources to document it for the
net.
I personally kept a 2 year blogg on our development, but this year, while I
have photographed the yards progress, I have not uploaded
this information to any site. Mostly due to lack of time.

http://www.jeack.com.au/~kirsty/ 2002/2003

My local permaculture group set up a in house mail list, which we use to
converse (like you seem to here)
with short queries. ie where to find a good timer supplier from last week,
which my partner put up in html.
http://www.auckett.net/permaculture/..._2nd_hand.html

But wouldn't it be great if this was all found on one good site !!

Hopefully our new site will soon be moved and I will be unemployed.
I may have time in the near future to 'finish' off the new site and get it
on some search engines.

A friend site who has lots of interesting information is
www.snakeshow.net

In short :
Permaculture is definately a grass roots movement.
Unfortunately we are living in a word where 'high' advertising is now the
selling movement, or possible it's saturation
drowns out every other 'selling' product. I don't personally believe
Permaculture lends itself well to the 'selling' approach,
However, Permaculture may not be losing revelance as len points out, but
rather I find it suffers from a
'all theory/few examples/you need the certificate' scenario. I personally
find many permaculturists, or those who want to 'attempt'
permaculture get bogged down with the theory, and achieve very little
because of they are constantly in some 'design' process.

People need examples they can relate to and achive on whatever level, and
the internet could provide them.
In reality Permaculture should be now thriving, and growing, as more and
more people are opting for the
'down shift' or 'sea change' lifestyle, are concerned about the planet, eat
more organic food etc etc. All which
is fundemental to permaculture.

This is my personal opinion


Kirsty




"Pete" wrote in message
...
"Pinky" wrote in message
...
Maybe you need to approach this problem from a permaculture perspective,
ie:
there's not an influx of money grubbing, selling it crap, there's simply
a
lack of simple-get-started-now info and use your web site to get the
word
out there?

Thats a good way to look at it, if we think about it, those of us who are
using pc techniques daily dont think to take pics and notes to pass on
...we
just get on with it.

I personally think there is room for the teachers and if there's a market
for a weekend crash course into pc then why wouldnt people who are able to
teach it offer that service ?

I understand what Len meant though, it could be very daunting for
newcommers
if they think that to be able to use permaculture means you have to be
taught by someone who has a diploma in pc design, and if you search for
pc
on the net thats what comes across.

We (this newsgroup) should be here as a resource for people who want
simple
and down to earth banter/advice/brain storming/idea echange about pc
without
it costing them anything, if they want to pursue a course then fine ... if
not then fine.... but its important to get the message across I think Len
was trying to make ... that you don't need to pay someone to teach you
permaculture techniques anymore than you need to pay someone to teach you
how to plant cabbages.

Of course there was "fluff" on this NG .... it was a community and thats
what made it so ....IMO thats why new folks jumped in and started posting
cos it felt like a community not just an information exchange.


PS. If those are tim-tams you're passing out there Pete, I'll have one,
ta
)

tim-tam for you .....and seeing as the female/male ratio looks pretty good
from where I'm sitting .......I also think a group hug would be nice. :-)

Just keep Len away from the red cordial