"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 24/11/04 15:19, in article ,
"Franz
Heymann" wrote:


"Franz Heymann" wrote in
message
...

"June Hughes" wrote in message
...
In message ,
Sacha
writes
On 23/11/04 10:37 pm, in article
, "June
Hughes" wrote:

In message ,
Sacha
writes
On 23/11/04 10:02 pm, in article
, "June
Hughes" wrote:

In message ,
Sacha
writes
On 23/11/04 7:16 pm, in article
,
"Kay"
wrote:

In article
,
Sacha
writes
On 22/11/04 11:05 pm, in article
,
"Kay" wrote:


You can read the full article on the Telegraph website.

So - it was class war. Those who do not own the land but
perceive it as
giving power, 'fought' those who do.

The argument of the article was the other way around -
that
the reaction
was so strong because those that do own the land perceived
it
as an
attack on their power. The article was about the reaction
to
the Bill,
not about its genesis. So on the question of whether the
Bill
was
stimulated by class issues or by animal rights concerns,
it
isn't
satisfactory evidence for either side.


The majority of people who hunt are not the rich land
owners
against whom
the Labour party now admits it was conducting a class war.
At
the end of
all this, that was what this was about - a class war. Not
a
concern for
animal welfare - a class war. It was a disgusting exercise
in
manipulative
hypocrisy. I'd like to see Tony Blair come down here to
the
South Devon
Hunt and tell them they're a crowd of land-owning
feudalists
who
think they
own and control Britain.
Assuming the our beloved leader can find the SW of England.

Explain, please. Your argument is unconvincing.

Many thanks.

I suggest you read the many reports on the matter, June. I
feel
sure those
will convince you more than anything I have to say.

Thank-you Sacha. I have read umpteen reports. They don't
convince me
at all. As a country girl, I always supported fox-hunting.
It
was what
we were brought up with. Incidentally, in Cumbria, where
there
are
many sheep (sheep-farming is often a farmer's living in the
far
north
of England), they hunt with hounds but not horses. However,
things have
changed rapidly over the past twenty years or so and I am now
unconvinced.

A friend of mine's family owns an estate in Cumbria, June -
used
to
have
their own Otter Hound pack - if that's the correct terminology.
I'm glad
they don't now. Because otters are not the nuisance they once
were
to the
industry that supported an estate. Rather the contrary, in
fact!
Another friend of mine whose father owns another estate in
Cumbria
rides to
hounds here in Devon. I wouldn't say I've gone into deep
conversation with
them over this but I know these people well and have some idea
of
their
knowledge of the countryside and know too, that the majority of
those who
hunt with them are not 'toffs' and that they would never see
themselves that
way, either.

That speaks volumes.
Kay was very clear in what she said. At present, I agree with
her.
Your reasoning has not changed my mind. Sorry to be a
nuisance
but if
you stick your neck out, you should be able to substantiate
what
you
say.

Please see my reply to Mike. This has been a class issue and
that
issue has
been obfuscated.
I have seen it. If I had time to sit here and argue with you I
would
but I have to start work now. You have failed convinced me.
Sorry.

You give every appearance of being congenitally unable to
understand
what you read. Perhaps you ought to consult an expert.

My most sincere apologies to June. In the heat of the moment I
replied in this tone to her letter, when I had in fact intended it
to
be a jibe at Sacha for being so obtuse about this point.

Franz


Then please keep your jibes to yourself. As you appear congenitally
unable
to be polite, I see no reason to observe your dictates.

My politeness has to be earned.

Franz