On 12 Dec 2004 at 3:29, Vicky Estrella wrote:

In a message dated 12/11/2004 8:55:20 AM Pacific Standard Time,
writes:

In colder areas
the Chinese Elms will be deciduous (lose their leaves in winter) but in
warmer
areas, such as Florida some will hold their leaves all year.

I'm glad you raised that point. I live in Southern California, and I have
some elms, as well as liquidambar, that will do just that. Many books state that
they need the cold, and a dormant period to rest, and one should defoliate if
they do not drop by late autumn. On the few occassions that I have removed
leaves, they come right back. At any rate, the trees do just fine without this
dormant period.
Do you think that perhaps these warm climate elms have adapted and no longer
require the dormant period? What is the prevailing wisdom?
Thanks,
Vicky

My opinion -- I doubt anyone has done (or will do) any
controlled studies on this:

I don't know that we have a long enough history to know. Elms,
as a Genus, are deciduous trees. Chinese elm is hardy between
zone 4-9 (and probably 10). Their leaves are "persistent" and
tend to linger on the tree longer than other species. It gets
pretty cold in zone 4, and from what I read and from what people
tell me, the elms lose their leaves in early to mid fall
(Octoberish) up there.

Down here (zone 8), elms in the ground may have leaves all year
long, but the trees are certainly thinner (more sparsely leafed)
by January and February, and some will be almost bare. Elms in
pots (at least MY elms in pots, which get absolutely no winter
protection) usually are bare by January, when the average daily
temperature here is in the upper 40s, and a.m. lows are in the
upper freezing zones.

In the ground, southern (zone 8 & up) Chinese elms probably
never lose their leaves all at once, but do it in bits and drabs
all year, but more heavily in the colder months (and more
importantly, those months with shorter days).

I doubt that American bonsaiests have enough experience (time)
with these trees in pots to know. Nor do they have any idea of
the genetic background of a tree they have in their possession --
whether it is one with genes adapted to colder climes, or one
that always came from the south. "Adaptation" (especially in
trees) isn't likely to be something that happens in the lifetime
of a human animal.

I'd be willing to bet, however, that a Chinese elm that spends
its life indoors will NOT live as long as one that lives outside
for all (or most) of the year and gets at least a touch of
cooler weather.

FWIW

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature
encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson

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