Neill wrote:
"USENET READER" wrote in message
ink.net...

You don't know what the **** you are talking about, why don't you just
shut up idiot. I know many average chinese citizens. They own stock.
The ability of the average Chinese person to live cheap and save would
put most Americans to shame.

You know these citizens from where? You go over to China? What is the
per capita income in China? You are so ****ing full of shit- it's not
like they make American wages and live in poverty by choice.


A repressed demofag, aren't you a joy!

Talking about personal attacks? You don't have any information or cites
to back up your claims, so you call someone a fag. What kind of a
fart-shiffing, crypto-fascists Bush lover are you?

China is getting rich on the imbalance of trade with the USA and from US
investments, not from slave-labor chinese workers buying stock. The
imbalance of trade ends up enriching the ChiCom officials and their US
Investors, and they end up owning more and more of US debt - they really
can't do anything else with all that money!

Doucheboy - why don't you come up with some numbers to prove your point
- what percentage of Chinese workers own stock, what is the per capita
income of those workers, and what percentage of their income do they
invest in the Chinese stock market? Or do you mean Chinese people
living and investing in the US market?


Personal attacks a point don't make.

Dickhead.



And do I want to live in ****ing squallor in the US just to make you
feel happy and superior - and to make some rich puke even richer?


I doubt you live in squalor, fag boy.




Sorry dingleberry - my famly came from Italy and Slovakia, and those
days of anyone from my family dancing on the end of a string for the Man
while living on some feudal manor and owing my soul to the Company
Store are ****ing over - you hear me? You and the rest of you rich
cocksuckers had better realize that your $7.00 rent a cops aren't gonna
protect you from the masses when we get ****ed and rise up to come after
you behind the walls of your gated community. And if you don't live
behind those gates - why the **** are you standing up for those rich
pukes anyway?


No, but say hello to my Colt .45


According to the news sources I have, even though the companies are
being privatized, the new owners are still the party elite and their
overseas business partners. Employee or other non-management stock
ownership is being held to 20% or less. So how the **** can you say
that the average Chinese citizen owns stock? Prove it - show me a

cite!


Because I have many friends in China. I've done better than read a few
news articles, I've lived there.

Right - did you move to china before or after your cousin pulled the
wrench out of the door of his car? What city and province did you live
in and why were you there in the first place. Because where you lived -
if you did live there - certainly colored your perspective of what is an
average Chinese person. If you lived in a big city, you might have been
living with a shitload of Chinese people, but they were far from average
- they were the top of the economic pile in China.


What's with the class division, fag boy? Are you not only repressed, but
poor, too. Damn, that's what you get for believing the communist lies your
faggot friends were telling you. Be careful, they only want to **** you in
the ass, but then, I'm not telling you anything you don't already know, eh,
fag boy?

When asked for a cite, all you can do is cal me a fag - that means you
don't have a ****ing clue.

I on the other hand can show cites that Chinese labor doesn't own stock
and that companies like Wal Mart actually hurt American workers more
than they help them:


From http://cecd.aers.psu.edu/pubs/PovertyResearchWM.pdf

Wal-Mart and County-Wide Poverty
October 18, 2004
AERS STAFF PAPER No. 371

Conclusion
After carefully and comprehensively accounting for other local
determinants of poverty, we find that the presence of Wal-Mart
unequivocally raised family poverty rates in US counties
during the 1990s relative to places that had no such stores. This was
true not only as a consequence of existing stores in a county in 1987,
but it was also an independent outcome of the location of new stores
between 1987 and 1998. The question whether the cost of relatively
higher poverty in a county is offset by the benefits of lower prices and
wider choices available to consumers associated with a Wal-Mart store
cannot be answered here.

However, if Wal-Mart does contribute to a higher poverty rate, then it
is not bearing the full economic and social costs of its business
practices. Instead, Wal-Mart transfers income from the working poor and
from taxpayers though welfare-programs directed at the poor to
stockholders and the heirs of the Wal-Mart fortune, as well as to
consumers. These transfers are in addition to the public infrastructure
subsidies often provided by local communities. Regardless of the
distributional effects, the Wal-Mart business model appears to extract
cumulative rents that exceed those earned by owners of other
corporations, including Microsoft.

From http://edworkforce.house.gov/democra...MARTREPORT.pdf

EVERYDAY LOW WAGES:
THE HIDDEN PRICE WE ALL PAY FOR WAL-MART
A REPORT BY THE DEMOCRATIC STAFF OF THE
COMMITTEE ON EDUCATION AND THE WORKFORCE
U.S. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES
REPRESENTATIVE GEORGE MILLER (D-CA), SENIOR DEMOCRAT
FEBRUARY 16, 2004

Wal-Mart maintains an extensive global network of 10,000 suppliers.74
Whether American, Bangladeshi, Chinese, or Honduran, Wal-Mart plays
these producers against one another in search of lower and lower prices.
American suppliers have been forced to relocate their businesses
overseas to maintain Wal-Mart contracts.75 Overseas manufacturers are
forced to engage in cutthroat competition that further erodes wages and
working conditions of what often already are sweatshops. To keep up with
the pressure to produce ever cheaper goods, factories force employees to
work overtime or work for weeks without a day off. A Bangladeshi factory
worker told the Los Angeles Times that employees at her factory worked
from 8 a.m. to 3 a.m. for 10 and 15 day stretches just to meet Wal-Mart
price demands. And still, Wal-Mart’sgeneral manager for Bangladesh
complained of his country’s factories, telling the Los Angeles Times, “I
think they need to improve. When I entered a factory in China, it seemed
they are very fast.”76

While low-wage jobs displace higher-paid manufacturing jobs in the
United States, undercutting living standards at home, living standards
abroad are not reaping the benefits one might expect. Reports indicate
that Wal-Mart’s bargaining power is able to maintain low wages and poor
working conditions among its foreign suppliers. The Washington Post has
explained: “As capital scours the globe for cheaper and more malleable
workers, and as poor countries seek multinational companies to provide
jobs, lift production, and open export markets, Wal-Mart and China have
forged themselves into the ultimate joint venture, their symbiosis
influencing the terms of labor and consumption the world over.”77 Thanks
to a ban on independent trade unions and a lack of other basic human
rights, China offers Wal-Mart a highly-disciplined and cheap workforce.
A Chinese labor official who asked to remain anonymous for fear of
punishment told the Washington Post that “Wal-Mart pressures the factory
to cut its price, and the factory responds with longer hours or lower
pay. And the workers have no options.”78

One employee of a Chinese supplier described the difficulties of
surviving on $75 per month. She could rarely afford to buy meat, and her
family largely subsisted on vegetables. Over four years, she had not
received a single salary increase.79

Wal-Mart has countered that it insists that its suppliers enforce labor
standards and comply with Chinese law. One-hundred Wal-Mart auditors
inspect Chinese plants, and the company has suspended contracts with
about 400 suppliers, mainly for violating overtime limits. An additional
72 factories were permanently blacklisted in 2003 for violating child
labor standards. Still, critics point out that the Wal-Mart does not
regularly inspect smaller factories that use middlemen to sell to the
company. Nor does it inspect the factories of subcontractors. A Chinese
labor organizer explained that the inspections are “ineffective,” since
Wal-Mart usually notifies the factories in advance. The factories “often
prepare by cleaning up, creating fake time sheets and briefing workers
on what to say.”80

The factories themselves complain that, because Wal-Mart demands such
low prices, they have slim profit margins – if any. A manager of one
Chinese supplier told the Washington Post, “In the beginning, we made
money … But when Wal-Mart started to launch nationwide distribution,
they pressured us for a special price below our cost. Now, we’re losing
money on every box, while Wal-Mart is making more money.”81 Obviously,
one way to regain a profit for such suppliers would be to begin cutting
back on labor costs.

Finally, as testament to Wal-Mart’s stalwart anti-union policy, none of
its 31 stores in China are unionized, despite the fact that the
Communist Party-controlled official union has told the company that it
would not help workers fight for higher pay.82 Oddly enough, Article 10
of China’s Trade Union Law requires that any establishment with 25 or
more workers must have a union. Wal-Mart, however, claims that it has
received assurances from the central government that it need not allow
unions in any of its stores.83 As one reporter has explained, “The
explanation for the apparent contradiction may be that the government’s
desire for foreigninvestment and jobs trumps any concern for workers’
rights. That wouldn’t be surprising in the Chinese environment, where
strikes are forbidden and the official labor grouping actively supports
the government’s efforts to block the rise of independent unions.”84
With China, any company in search of pliant and cheap labor has found a
perfect mix of cooperative government officials and workers made
submissive through fear.

How the **** can anyone who hasn't had a wage increase in years and
can't afford to put food on the table and works from 8 AM until 3 AM
afford to buy stock? When do they find the time to run down to the
stock broker's office to make their purchase? Or do they do it on line?


Management decides what to build, labor decides whether they will do it
well or not. Some choose to be sloppy.

And who should put quality control on the assembly line to catch that
shit? Management should have but didn't.


Sure, point the finger at everyone but yourself. Ever hear of
accountability? No? I guess not, because you want to blame God for making
you a fag. Instead of taking responsibility for yourself., you want everyone
else to be responsible for you. Too bad, fag boy!

Again - what an asshole - when given an example of something that you
can't refute, you call me a fag. Clearly the loser in this thread is
you - you can't even make a logical arguent to support your claims and
cannot offer cites in support of your claims.


And MANY, MANY, MANY more DO HAVE A CHOICE, and choose cheap.



Sorry - very very very very very few people actually have a choice on
what to buy these days - they aren't the buyers for the stores and don't
have a say on what goes on the shelves.

Do you think that customers tell Wal-Mart what to put on the shelves to
sell? **** no - Wal-Mart tells vendors what they will buy an item for,
and in fact tells them to move the production over to China in order to
make it cheaper. GE did that too with many of the vendors who supplied
parts for GE consumer products. When a company like Wal-Mart moves close
to one in four of a growing number of products sold in the country, the
customer has damn little to say about where things are made, expecially
when the loss of those jobs forces people to buy cheaper stuff to make
their money last longer. It's a race to the bottom.


Sorry, but, Wal-Mart gives their customers what they want, whether you like
or not, fag boy! Quit worrying about everybody else, and get a life.



Do people know that when they shop at Wal-Mart, they are shopping
themselves out of jobs?

Quit selling out your birthright and your country you ****ing fascist
asshole - and get ready for the time when we put your ass against the
wall and shoot you with the rest of the pukes. You want a blindfold, or
not? Menthol or regular?

From http://www.fastcompany.com/magazine/77/walmart.html

The Wal-Mart You Don't Know

The giant retailer's low prices often come with a high cost. Wal-Mart's
relentless pressure can crush the companies it does business with and
force them to send jobs overseas. Are we shopping our way straight to
the unemployment line?

Therein lies the basic conundrum of doing business with the world's
largest retailer. By selling a gallon of kosher dills for less than most
grocers sell a quart, Wal-Mart may have provided a ser-vice for its
customers. But what did it do for Vlasic? The pickle maker had spent
decades convincing customers that they should pay a premium for its
brand. Now Wal-Mart was practically giving them away. And the fevered
buying spree that resulted distorted every aspect of Vlasic's
operations, from farm field to factory to financial statement.

Indeed, as Vlasic discovered, the real story of Wal-Mart, the story that
never gets told, is the story of the pressure the biggest retailer
relentlessly applies to its suppliers in the name of bringing us "every
day low prices." It's the story of what that pressure does to the
companies Wal-Mart does business with, to U.S. manufacturing, and to the
economy as a whole. That story can be found floating in a gallon jar of
pickles at Wal-Mart.

Wal-Mart wields its power for just one purpose: to bring the lowest
possible prices to its customers. At Wal-Mart, that goal is never
reached. The retailer has a clear policy for suppliers: On basic
products that don't change, the price Wal-Mart will pay, and will charge
shoppers, must drop year after year. But what almost no one outside the
world of Wal-Mart and its 21,000 suppliers knows is the high cost of
those low prices. Wal-Mart has the power to squeeze profit-killing
concessions from vendors. To survive in the face of its pricing demands,
makers of everything from bras to bicycles to blue jeans have had to lay
off employees and close U.S. plants in favor of outsourcing products
from overseas.

One way to think of Wal-Mart is as a vast pipeline that gives non-U.S.
companies direct access to the American market. "One of the things that
limits or slows the growth of imports is the cost of establishing
connections and networks," says Paul Krugman, the Princeton University
economist. "Wal-Mart is so big and so centralized that it can all at
once hook Chinese and other suppliers into its digital system.
So--wham!--you have a large switch to overseas sourcing in a period
quicker than under the old rules of retailing."

Steve Dobbins has been bearing the brunt of that switch. He's president
and CEO of Carolina Mills, a 75-year-old North Carolina company that
supplies thread, yarn, and textile finishing to apparel makers--half of
which supply Wal-Mart. Carolina Mills grew steadily until 2000. But in
the past three years, as its customers have gone either overseas or out
of business, it has shrunk from 17 factories to 7, and from 2,600
employees to 1,200. Dobbins's customers have begun to face imported
clothing sold so cheaply to Wal-Mart that they could not compete even if
they paid their workers nothing.

"People ask, 'How can it be bad for things to come into the U.S.
cheaply? How can it be bad to have a bargain at Wal-Mart?' Sure, it's
held inflation down, and it's great to have bargains," says Dobbins.
"But you can't buy anything if you're not employed. We are shopping
ourselves out of jobs."