"USENET READER" wrote

Reputation. A medical standards group that racks up a lot of
bozos with malpractice suits is dead in the water. Right now,
the system is not only biased, there's not much feedback.

There's no shortage of certification systems in the private market.
A bachelors degree in engineering from an *accredited* university
is also a form accredation. Microsoft does a lot too, as does the
Red Cross for lifeguards.

You raise an interesting point. The problem is that those
certifications and degrees cost money out front before you even get a
job that might not be there when you graduate.


If you can't hold a job and earn certifications from Microsoft
at the same time, you aren't very employable to begin with.

Sorry - many people who work today have to work long and hard hours and
their lives aren't their own. Most people have to not only get this
certification apart from work, but they also have to pay for it on their
own too! Someone who is told that they have to work tonight (when they
should be going to their certification class) or they don't have to come
in the next day has a tough choice to make.

Crime me an anecdotal river.

Getting your certification on the job is so much better.

For *you*.

And it's tougher to pay for that very expensive certification if you
don't have a job

Firmly grasping the obvious...

- that is some expensive shit!

....until now. Software certification is free/cheap.

You can't even get the
State to pay for it in a reasonable period of time - let's say taking

GOOD!

classes at the McKimmon Center - because the classes are so much more
expensive than at Wake Tech - where it will take a lot longer to
complete the course work.



"Would you like to supersize that?" And don't leave the nest
until you can fly.


One of the things that a union has done in the past is to have a system
for new workers to come into a system as a helper or apprentice and work
and learn at the same time, until they passed some sort of
certification. And they didn't have to take out loans or pay someone to
teach them - they learned on the job while they were getting paid. And
while they were learning, they had job protection. What could possibly
be wrong with that?


Nothing. The false dichotomy (again) is that you need a union
to have apprenticeships. Many, many professions have some
form of this.

Since few employees have the bargaining strength these days (relative to
their employers) to negotiate for paid on the job training,

Plenty of employers *do* offer it if it is related to work. Care
to back up your implied (sneaky, aren't we?) claim that few
employees have access to on the job training?

unions do
help with that. Name me a profession that isn't unionized that have
apprenticeships? And don't say medicine, because that is apples and
oranges.

If you say so. Ironically, computers were the classic type of
learn-as-you-go work, though not as much now. Just about
every type of construction effectively works that way. You
don't take carpentry classes. You start as a helper. Same for
aliminum siding, roofing, sheetrock, etc. Electricians do the
formal version even where their aren't unions.

Lawyers, engineers, brokers, etc. start in junior positions.
Management in general is trains & grooms as you go. It's
a very common model, whether it is a formal apprenticeship
or not.

--Ted