On Jan 28, 2005, at 4:08 PM, Jim Lewis wrote:

On 28 Jan 2005 at 6:44, synex wrote:

Theo - I wasn't pouncing on you, but yes, if I took it/responded the
wrong way, I apologise. You talk about "basic knowledge" though. I
have
to start somewhere - a lot of people in here are insistent this is the
wrong way to go about it. I disagree - time will tell.


You ask for advice. You get it. You reject it. Why expect any
MORE advice?



Someone said the internet *and* books can be a bad way to learn

As I read the responses, I didn't hear anyone saying that the internet
and books were a bad way to learn. Quite the opposite--it is an
excellent way to start. But a person needs to go beyond that. As I
understood Jim's point about this, anyone can post something on a
website that is totally inaccurate. Any monkey with a modem and
computer can put up a website. In the same way, there are bonsai books
which give erroneous advice. The point was to be discerning and get a
consensus on where to start.


snip


As for collecting wild - alas, I have no "experienced teacher" to
learn
from. As I said before, I like to jump in at the deep end - I'll try
something from the wild if I can find a suitable species, and I'll see
how I go.

As far as I am concerned, that is environmentally unacceptable
behavior. If you don't know how to collect a tree it WILL die.
Guaranteed.


You've got a tremendous resource for collecting in the wild right on
this list--for that matter, on any aspect of bonsai. Any one of a
number of people on the list, if they can't help you in person, could
tell you how to collect a tree. I've collected dozens and dozens of
trees. Certainly over a hundred at this point. Depending on the
species I can help. There are many on the list in the UK who can give
you detailed directions.

Maybe you need to make a little effort to find a club or
someone. Growers of bonsai are more common than you think.


Many thanks once again for the advice - I am trying to learn.

Experience is certainly a good thing. Five years ago I was in the
same situation as you, wanting to learn. I came on the list after
having bought a mallsai and one book, wondering why my juniper that I
kept indoors died. There are a few curmudgeons on the list who forget
that they too were wondering why their first mallsai juniper died after
they kept it indoors. ;0}

snip

Telling me I need to start somewhere else, is not.

Ah, but it should be, if you're willing to listen.

Telling us that your're gonna grow from seed and damn the
torpedos and full speed ahead also isn't too "helpful." You're
asking us to assure you of something for which we cannot offer
you any real assurance.

Jim's right here, although his tone is rather strident. Let me offer an
illustration from my line of work. As a pastor I do weddings. The
first thing I have the wedding party do in the rehearsal the night
before is to start at the end. I line them up in the front of the
church as they will be standing when they process up the aisle. They
are puzzled at first but I ask them to trust me, that I know what I'm
doing. They realize when I send them down back to rehearse the
processional that they know where they're going when they get up front.
So it is with bonsai. When you're first learning it's better to start
on something already further along in development so you'll understand
how to take a tree from seedling to bonsai, if that's your goal. I
realize it's a romantic thing to think about starting your first tree
from seed, but the reality is that you're going to wait an awfully long
time before you can do much of anything with it.

snip

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - When we see
land as a community to which we belong, we may begin to use it
with love and respect - Aldo Leopold - A Sand County Almanac


Don't give up too easily. Also, be willing to at least consider being
pointed in a direction you may not have thought of. It's the best way
to learn.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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