GardenBanter.co.uk - View Single Post - Bottom Drains

08-05-2005, 04:27 PM

wrote:

~ jan JJsPond. us wrote:
If you are referring to the wax ring on the toilet base, that is a
static gravity seal and not subject to constant pressure.
A filter set-up to AKCA recommendations is also via gravity, not
pressure.

Incorrect. A wax toilet base seal has only momentary water flow through
it when you flush the toilet.

It does, however, have water on the seal at all times. My point was that
it's a _really_ flimsy - and primitive - seal, subject not only to
expansion and contraction, but considerable flex in the floor to which it
is mounted (usually), and yet they still rarely fail.

There is thousands of pounds of water
weight (pressure) sitting on top of the seal, constantly expanding and

Do you actually have a single clue? Pressure in a water column is _purely_
dependent on the height of the water column. In the case of a 3' deep
pond, approximately 6psi. Scary...

shrinking as the temperature changes in your pond. This expansion and
contraction will result in a leak in the bottom drain fitting to pond
liner connection over time and make your life complicated.

You parrot things you've been told without the slightest understanding of
the reality of the situation.

There is nothing more aggravating that to drain your pond for spring
or fall
cleanout and find that a leaking bottom drain has saturated the
earth
with water.

There's nothing more aggravating than draining your pond annually. Period.

This is not true. Even with a perfectly operating bottom drain you WILL
get an accumulation of muck and debris. That is unless you have NO
gravel or rocks on the pond liner bottom.

Well, duh? Why would you defeat the purpose of a filtration system like
that?

However, most people have rocks and gravel in the
bottom of their ponds

Care to take a survey? From many years on this group, I can assure you that
most of the regulars here do _not_ have rocks or gravel on the bottom.
Most of the people who ever did, rip it out.

That water then causes the rubber liner to have huge
pockets of trapped water that bubble up the liner and cannot be
fixed

That's the least of your problems. If it actually leaked, a pond installed
with proper drainage wouldn't have that problem - and you _should_ have
good drainage, otherwise you're going to get that water under the lining
when it rains, anyway. The leak would be the real problem. Nobody wants
to lose water at a steady rate.

The above is Aquascape Mantra. Those of us schooled in koi ponds try\ our
best to inform water garden hobbyists, that the infra-structure
recommended
in koi ponds, make water gardens all the more low-maintenance.

1. I am not a marketing rep. I am a 55 year old retired engineer from

You're plugging a business that hypes bad practices. That makes you a
marketing rep. (Congrats on the Grandchild).

2. Wes (my son-in-law) has been building ponds for years and was
Aquasquapes #1 installer in the state of Michigan, and I think in the
top 10 in the USA before he decided to stop using some of the marginal
products they sell and ended his affiliation with them and went on his
own way. Yes, Aquascapes is the largest pond supplier and educator in
the business.

Oh, please. Even when you say they have problems you repeat their
propaganda. They are the largest supplier and educator by their own
standards.

Their growth has been phenomenal. Their 20 steps to
building a pond does not even suggest a bottom drain.

So, let's take another survey. How many people here use Aquascapes?

4. Basically, you are an Aquascapes trained clone and in time you will
learn on your own with trial and error how to do things right as you
mature in the business. Wes also started out like you, believing
Aquasacpes was God.

Now, you've completely lost me. Jan is _definitely_ not an "Aquascapes
trained clone". As I said, you won't find much support for Aquascapes
systems here. You, otoh, are spouting way too much of their schtick.

5. For the average home pond or watergarden you should not use a bottom
drain. If you want to use something other than a pond liner, then go
for it. Also be prepared to spend lots more money to get the job done.

Try letting Wes do your talking. If he knows as much as you say he does, he
should have a clue. (Though most of us didn't need all those years to
figure out Aquascapes doesn't work).
--
derek