Farm1 wrote:

Pete I've mentioned these farms here befo
http://www.abc.net.au/landline/stories/s100812.htm

I know that one of the major problems at least one of these farms had was
salinity. somewhere I have a book on what was on those farms but I can't
lay my hands on it at the moment. It is fascinating reading and I can
strongly recommend it.

Hiya Fran
I remember the last link but couldnt remember the first one so thanks
for them I'll save em as faves and have a good read.

I have to admit the farming organisations seem to be doing lots of stuff
to try new things and the farmers themselves seem much more open to
trying new things these days too, at one time not so long ago farmers
wouldn't have even admitted to having a salt prob because it was seen as
a failure to manage the property properly, I think ...I hope those
attitudes are changing and farmers now seem to openly discuss it and
look for ways of dealing with it.


I'm not sure what you mean by "soil structure". I do know that a lot of the
salinity info I've seen relating to farm salinity is about increasing humus
content (wiht the recognition that this is very difficult but that
increasing soil biota is very possible and also very successful) and
increasing soil coverage (by vegetation muclching etc and very strong
protection against any degradtion of the souil by both animal activity and
human activity.

OK Tomorrow I'm definitely taking some soil pics, before and after pics
of what simple hoss poop can do to a poor excuse for a soil.... you'll
see what I mean by soil structure then my girl I'll give you soil
structure (oops ..slipped into grumpy old fart mode then) ......actually
of course its just my interpretation of what a good soil structure
should be but if I manage to take good pics I'm sure you'll agree that
the structure is more like soil and less like dried pea soup waiting for
moisture, plus it has "things" growing in it.

This is basically what I've been saying all along ...look after the soil
and the rest will follow ...I know on a broad acre place this is a
nightmare task of mammoth proportions ya can't just cart manure to a
spot when you see a need because of other needs, crops, grazing etc, I'm
only working on this new section which is tiny compared to a paddock but
its taking some work to even get a few rows to mature into what I call
real soil so I take my hat off to anyone tackling many hectares, my
only problem with their well intentioned and sometimes spectacular
results is that most of the time I can't directly relate to the
procedures they are using, reading an old -ish Stock Journal a farmer is
applying 2T/HA of Gypsum onto very clayey and saline paddocks which
increases his DSE from 1 DSE/8HA to 4DSE/HA !!!! now thats a huge
difference and it's improving the moisture retention of the clay soils
by enabling the particles to form colloidal (help spell checker) mass
..... rather than minute particles that form a dense clod.



Do you remember me posting this site befo
http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch02/withers/index.html

I think it fits your criteria of soil creation and effective coping with
appalling non productive soil very well and is very inspiring. You may not
agree :-))

I always agree with you ...you know that, remember I had the worms? ,,,
they are still around in a much broader area and possibly less dense
population ....the original vermicompost has been used for different
projects with varying degrees of success ...it dries out to almost the
same unwettable stuff that we've talked about before if it's left too
long without moisture, I lost my raspberry bush which was at one stage
going rampant in the old worm beds because I became complacent and
thought the moisture was actually getting deep into the "soil" ... it
wasnt, one thing we have found the ex vermicompost good for is growing
native trees in, which would seem to confirm that there is little high
nutrient value left in it but when watered carefully it holds water
while still being free draining.


I wonder if anyone would be interested if I put together a simple web
page wiv piccies of my modest efforts in the hopes of helping others ?


I'd be very interested.

Fran

Then thats 2 of ya's ...and it shall be done ...just don't expect earth
shattering discoveries.... just a simple guy playing in the dirt.

Pete