"Courageous" wrote in message
...

** From the bad experiences I've seen and heard about with concrete
ponds
I'm totally discouraged. Besides then we have another huge expense of
hiring professions to mix the concrete and somehow get it to stick to the
rubber liner. Neither myself or my husband have ever worked with
concrete.

You don't have to have, but you'll have to read up on it. If you went the
underlayment-under-the-cement route, you won't have to do a single pour.
You can hand pack

## Hand pack? Putting a thick layer of concrete on the large 4 walls of
this pond would be more than two people our age can handle I believe. The
concrete would have to be several inches thick or more to resist the
pressure of the earth, and reinforced with rebar and chickenwire. Just
mixing the concrete is a job in itself, and the mixture and texture have to
be just right. I remember years ago when my father did his driveway. He
finally went and rented a mixer..... he did everything right BTW and in a
few years there were cracks and bits coming loose.

Eventually it will crack and bits will start to disintegrate under the
water. Water will get behind/between the concrete and liner since
sealing
concrete 100% waterproof is almost impossible. I would have to see one
done
this way a few years (where it freezes in winter) before, to give me some
confidence in putting concrete over rubber.

A good reason for worry. Here in San Diego -- no freezing.

## Here in TN we get some deep freezes in winter and that causes problems
with concrete.

** To get rid of the alkalinity from the concrete.

No I meant the expense. But I see you're on a fairly strict budget.
Okee dokey.

## Yes, unfortunately we are, and I just found out I'm going to lose my
low-cost Tenncare health insurance. I also need several caps at $900 each
and have no dental insurance so can't really afford to spend much on a
hobby.

** That's true but the liner wont *GROW* to fit a bigger hole unless the
concrete was on the OUTSIDE. Remember now, I'm retired and my husband is
semi-retired so our funds are not unlimited anymore. We would have to
hire
someone to do this concrete work and quite honestly I don't think we
could
afford it.

No, I'm doing a big pond, and I won't afford that either. For one thing,
you should never hire a concrete guy for this stuff, but rather a pond
guy, and they often charge about treble for the same job. Artisans --
they always want more. Go figger.

## This is so true. The pond places here are such rip-offs even the wealthy
people we know avoid them. I don't know how they stay in business. Most
people we know, including the financially comfortable, dig and line their
own ponds. And most of these ponds are bowl shape and not collapsing like
our pond is. I think we'll probably go with a bowl shape and hope for the
best. We'll add soil to the bottom and flare out the sides bowl-like.
It'll be a little shallower but wider at the top and the gallonage will
remain the same. That should work. We can do that ourselves and be finished
in a few days, maybe a week. It wont cost us an arm and a leg either. :-)

Anyway, how about "plan B".

Consider the cheapest pre form blocks around: cinder block.

## That would make digging a larger hole necessary and the blocks are about
$1.29 each here. Keep in mind that the rocky soil here in TN in summer when
it's DRY is like a concrete sidewalk to dig. You have to use pick axes and
a maddox and the pond hole is so deep you have to raise the soil out with a
bucket, a bucked at a time by hand. The temperature is in the 90s as is the
humidity and this pond is in the full sun. My husband and I are both 60
years old....... do you see why we so dread redoing this pond?

Stair step them, and fill the holes with earth for weight.
Put the liner over the stairs.
Put big rocks on the stairs above the liner, padding between the rocks
and the liner to prevent punctures.

Go check your local land scape supply / rock yard (not home depot, they
overcharge for stuff like this by as much as 100%) for prices on the
cinderblock. Might be less than you think $$.

## I don't know of any "landscape supply" places here. We have places that
sell landscape plants, shrubs, trees and yard, patio and garden goodies that
charge *much more* than any of the other places selling such things. Lowe's
has blocks for around $1.30 each. But then we're back to hiring someone to
dig the hole larger, remove the soil and set the blocks. I can't even lift
them anymore. I'd be in the ER with my back out.... :-(

Another alternative would be to get a truck and hand collect stones
of a size that you and your husband can handle, possibly with the
assistance of some day labor -- if your region has such stuff in
legally collectible areas of course.

## All we have here is native limstone which is free for the taking. I use
it for everything everywhere.

See my ponds here.
http://tinyurl.com/crtso
It's a quick webpage I just tossed together the other night. I have a much
better, larger page planned. :-)

--
McKoi.... the frugal ponder...
EVERYONE: "Please check people's headers for forgeries
before flushing." NAMES ARE BEING FORGED.
Do not feed the trolls.
~~~ }((((o ~~~ }{{{{o ~~~ }(((((o