In article , X-No-Archive: yes
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Jul 2005 17:54:36 GMT, "Travis"
wrote:

Tom Jaszewski wrote:
There is never any point in a discussion with you when you've dug
yourself in.

Consider reading the introductory page of the last "Compost Science
and Utilization.

Where exactly are the peer reviewed articles?


Interesting bunch here...peer review is valid unless we're discussing
Monsanto and round up.....

Join Paggers in remaining clueless...or read...


http://attra.ncat.org/attra-pub/PDF/...-tea-notes.pdf

Unfortunately the main "authority" used by the politically duped folks at
ATTRA is Elaine R. Ingham, the crackpot who was bounced around from
college to college unable to win tenure until she was asked to resign from
her final position for using University of Oregon fascilities to promote
her private business of selling compost tea. Her misrepresentations are
numerous & ATTRA has leapt in as pre-believers who didn't compare Ingham's
faked data with actual field studies. Although to be fair, ATTRA has not
collectively produced this literature, it is strictly promo literature by
one man, Steve Diver, who seems to have bamboozled the naifs at ATTRA into
actually breaking the law & putting their funding at risk. Diver is a
friend & business associate of Ingham. He's obviously approached compost
tea as a religion, & taken Ingham as his priestess -- because it is hard
work to avoid the actual data as he has done.

Diver says of Ingham's self-published promotional booklet on which he
bases his information, "I highly recommend this mannual," & throughout the
text cites & paraphrases Ingham as the primary authority -- not for
scientific data (for which there is none to support her claims) but Diver
just writes promotionally, as in this choice turn of phrase: "Dr. Elaine
Ingham, a microbial ecologist, has elevated our collective knowledge of
the soil foodweb," even incorporating Ingham's personal, invented titles
(a doctor of microbial ecology, gimme a break), which is entirely
promo-jargon. He even works in her company name, Soil Foodweb in a most
novel context. One has to give Diver credit for not promoting his own
tapes at the same time; he does sell them.

Diver might be a reliable source of OTHER agricultural information, but
for compost tea is merely a vendor promotor. He has elsewhere posted
advertisements on the web & in newsgroups for such things as Ingham's $50
slide & video set for others who want (like himself) to give presentations
& sell compost tea products. A typical example of his Ingham promotion
appears he
http://lists.ibiblio.org/pipermail/permaculture/2003-January/017161.html
Nowhere does Diver ever cite the peer-reviewed evidence, for the same
reason Ingham dares not do so.

Bare in mind that the best scientific data available on the very slight
but actual values of compost teas do not find that aerated teas are in any
way superior, & in some ways inferior -- these promotions are for aerated
teas because they require expensive equipment & it's a profitable scam. A
true believer in compost teas, rather than a scoundrel out for a buck,
would be showing how the pricy equipment is a complete waste of money. So
even as believers go, Diver was ENTIRELY the wrong gent to be providing
information for ATTRA to deposit on line exclusively & illegally to
promote specific vendors of worthless products, rather than show fellow
believers how to do it better for free.

Diver's other major "authority" is BBC Laboratories which is a sciency
sounding name for yet another vendor of compost teas. All the information
ATTRA fobs off on the public is vendor-provided.

By law ATTRA is not permitted to advertise or endorse specific products,
companies, or individuals. In promoting Ingham, her business, & even
including photographs of the recommended products, the ATTRA articles on
compost tea are actually illegal. I will forward this post to ATTRA & to
relevant congressmen, as they've definitely stepped over the line
repeatedly promoting Ingham's business & products, which they wouldn't've
been permitted to do even if she weren't a known crackpot & falsifier of
data.

But it's lucky for you you found Ingham paraphrased as it would seem
you've finally joined the ranks of the many vendors rightly embarrassed by
their former Vendor Goddess & no longer willing to cite her directly, but
only through her main remaining advocate. I'm sure it still stings that
you mistakenly posted in this ng, in failed support of Ingham & compost
teas, her paranoid replies to why actual field research keeps failing to
support her claims.

She went totally loony inventing that idiotic story about the REASON field
tests show aerated teas have no effect on pathogens is because the
researchers sneak into the fields at night and POISON THEIR PLANTS ON
PURPOSE so that the scientific evidence will be negative & against compost
tea effectiveness. I also liked her stuff about scientists having a a
secret "HIDDEN AGENDA" so nefarious & sinister she cannot make sense of
it even to herself let alone to her letter's readers. This really is like
a schizophrenic pretty convinced of things no matter how great the
disconnect from reality. But what is certain, in Ingham's world, you
can't trust the scientists -- you can trust only herself & other vendors
for the truth.

She further claimed in that posted letter that her research WOULD be
forthcoming in a peer-reviewed scientific journal. She lied. It remains
exclusively self-published promotional literature.

She not only fabricates data, she fabricates her own educational
background, taken to task by Dr. James Moore when she claimed to have done
some of her research at his side. She later said it was a completely
different James Moore, some chap who mows golf courses, but that seems to
have been another of her Invisible Playmates since no lawn-mowing "Dr."
Moore has ever come forward to substantiate her diluted claim.

It's unfortunate that greenies at ATTRA, who should know better, have
embraced Ingham's laughable & entirely vendor-oriented pretend-research
which has been rejected from every peer-reviewed agricultural journal so
that she has to publish leaving out testable data.

It's tragic that ATTRA would lend its organization name to Steve Divers
merelyh to put the stamp of approval on a crazy woman like Ingham & ignore
all actual research. And I use the word "crazy" advisedly since Ingham has
shown a tendency toward paranoid delusions & conspiracy theories when
confronted by actual research data.

Anyone who wants to believe the myths will naturally be drawn AWAY from
the peer reviewed science & to this crackpot's notorious promotional
literature. I will separately repost a bit of our old discussion of Ingham
form the last time you talked yourself into a painted corner searching
your heart out for any real science & lighting exclusively on Crazy
Ingham. Anyone who just wants to sell the products, like Divers & I would
guess yourself, will also not care that Ingham fabricates data, fabricates
her expertise, & self-publishes her non-science after failing to convince
any peer-reviewed agricultural journal to take her seriously.

-paggers
--
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