Jim,

Thanks for the expanded description. I understand/remember better
now.

Hmmm...

Seems to me that you've pretty well got the bases covered, and that
each component is pretty much doing its job. It sounds like the muck
in the VFs is mostly resulting from debris falling and being blown in,
and from the plants that naturally die off. Given that, I'm not sure
that you can do much more than you have already done. You certainly
aren't going to hang a debris net over the VFs.

With the bottom drains in each of the VF pools, for perodic flushing,
it appears to me that you have about reduced maintenance to the
minimum already. (And it really doesn't sound so bad anyway.)

But you have now set me to thinking, regarding my own design. For a
VF, I have been thinking in terms of a well-planted meandering stream
that ultimately flows into the ponds. This however will be subject to
the same concerns that we have just discussed. But it is rather
difficult to install bottom drains in a meandering stream. So when I
flush the VF, unlike with your design, everything then goes straight
into the ponds! Clearly, I need to put some thought into this issue
now...

David

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 15:48:15 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
wrote:

David,

You are right about the benefit of a settling tank/area and vortex!

Our lines are not quite direct into the veggie filters. The water goes
thru several steps, which include some settling and vortex motion:

1. The pump is down 7' in the bottom of the deep well (old septic
tank). It is in a 5 gal bucket with 1/2" holes all round. This guards
the pump as it is not supposed to have solids more than 1/2". The pump
bucket is on bricks, so it is 4" off the bottom of the septic tank.
That tank gets most of the pine needles etc. I scoop it out each
spring. In effect, it is our solid filter. Larger solids settle in it.
It is not, however, vortexed.

2. The lines go into 55 gal upflow barrels with strapping tape in mesh
bags above the vortexed (think angled entrance) entry lines. The few
solids getting to the barrels settle in the barrels and virtually no
solids of any size go on to the veggie filters.

3. The water exits the barrels into one of two veggie filter systems:

-The left system :

-passes through a 4' x 4' x 18" pond (again on an angle to promote some
circular, vortex motion). The pond is loaded with veggies.
-It then passes into a 4' x 8' x 18" veggie pond (angled entrance, again).
-At the end of the long pond, it falls down our U-shaped falls or our
adjustable-flow bypass pipe (less water over the falls means less
evaporation),
-Then through the small pond at the base of the falls, and
finally it reenters the main pond via an 8' stream (far from the deep well)

The right system:

-has two barrels that feed into opposite ends of
-a 4' x 8' x 18" pond (angled entrances for vortex circulation).
-After the pond, the water drops over our step falls and
-reenters the pond via an 8' stream (also far from the deep well).

The bottom of each pond is concave to gather muck, drains at the low points.

You can see the berm layout on our website.

The water takes 20 min to go through the right side and 45 on the left.
The result is really good sedimentation. The second pond on the left
has lots less sediment than the first pond.

In effect, the deep well is my mechanical sedimentation area for
everything larger than 1/2" and for lots of other stuff. The barrels
and ponds get the fine muck. They have solids only when their plants
die or pine needles and cones fall in. When I drain them, I sometimes
have to pull out the cones, etc.

Long response to a short point.

Be sure to post pics of your layout when you get it up and running.

Jim



David wrote:
Hi Jim,

I had forgotten that your piping goes directly from the sump into the
veggie filters. IMHO, a vortex settlement, or even a static
settlement tank, with bottom a bottom drain, between the sump and the
veggie filters would help this problem immensely. Further, for me
anyway, I am designing in mechanical filtration (brushes, matala,
etc.), and then bio-conversion (fluidized kaldness), between the
vortex and the veggie filter/stream. JMO, FWIW, YMMV....

David

On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 07:22:57 -0500, Phyllis and Jim Hurley
wrote:


Greg,

Your comment plants a seed of insight for me. We have about 10 koi,
full grown and half a dozen goldfish. The main pond is 2900 gal and the
berm ponds another 1000. There is a significant amount of muck that
gets caught in the berm veggie filters. If they did not get it, the
pond would. It simply does not 'go away', tho it is easy to drain out
by opening the 2" bottom drains.

I wonder if successful 'rocking' depends on the filtering out of waste.

We have an open cement bottom in the main pond. The koi constantly stir
the muck and it goes down the drain and up into the veggie filters.
Only pine needles build up in the main pond...and they generally find
their way down to the drain area (an old septic tank with the pump 4"
off the bottom).

Jim