the beebs worth the licence fee purely for its news having no commercial pressures on it. As Mike said just look at itv or for an even worse examples the major broadcasters in the US, fox especially. ok, you can raise the gilligan story over iraq and the way the govt got the beeb to backtrack, but with their fee up for renewal by this govt they had no real option. anyways this post is too political for a gardening forum so i'm off for the mo