PS. See, I am under the impression you can import, with the correct
permits, plant material on CITES Appendix 1 list if they are certified to be
nursery grown. The lore I understand about this case is that he bought the
plants from a local plant stand in the mountains of Peru. Nursery. Plant
Stand, hummm..... To me this means some Peruvian CITES permit issuing
official had to certify that the vendor in the mountains actually produced
these plants in their nursery...and everybody concerned had to believe this
was true....

I still would like to learn the coarse of events and how they traveled from
there to Shelby without being stopped. But probably not enough to go back
and wade through the volume of information posted on orchid boards and lists
that this topic has produced. So I don't really expect an answer. I am
just avoiding work today....

"Al" wrote in message
...
This is where I am confused and this is what I mean.

I assume he had the correct import permits for Phrag species from the US
CITIES officials when he left the country to go to Peru. He is a plant
collector.

I assume, when he goes to leave Peru, he obtained permission to export the
plants he collected from a CITIES official there.

I believe he knew he had a new species of Phrag.

So how does the paper work read? Did he write "Phrag sp. unidentified"
which might allow the export and import officials checking paperwork
against plants in a box to read it as being one of the species on the list
he had authority to import/export?

Did he mean to obfuscate the newness of the species *if* he wrote this
and/or did the officials make assumptions that did not include the
possibility it was new? Did he lie on the form and claim it was something
he knew it wasn't: "Phrag schlimii"

Did he know his authority to import/export Phrags did *not* include
undescribed new species in this genus?

Did the lower level permit checking and issuing officials on both sides of
the border know what to do if they had a NEW species from a CITES appendix
two protected genus passing by them? How often does that happen?

I have always just been curious. Is this a gray area or should somebody
have known to stop the plants from leaving Peru or coming into the
country. Or did he HIDE the newness of the Phrag in order to get it into
the country?

Al

And, esoterically messing with your mind: If it's an unidentified new
species, how can it be considered a Phrag at all?

Reka" wrote in message
.. .
In article ,

Disregarding the issue of whether CITES is succeeding at what it intends
to do or not, can you consider this a gray area? All Paph and Phrag
species are Appendix 1, right? So where is the gray area?
--
Reka

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