I bought a flask of the Paph vietnamense sold by Antec. They provided me
with a receipt just like they do with any other Paph. There was no other
paper work that came with the flask. The only assurance I have that the
plants were propagated and sold with the blessing of the US and Vietnamese
governments was Antec's posted word on their website. Of course, I believed
them. I think the story of how they came to propagate and sell them
legally in the US is still documented on their website.

Despite my belief in Antec's veracity, I checked with a friend of mine who
works for CITES in the capacity of "Chief, Division of Scientific
Authority", (lets call him CITES DUDE and imagine him to be very much like
Captain America after consuming a can of Popeye's magical spinach) and he
confirmed they were aware of what antec was doing and it was legal. I
contacted him to ask about *re-selling* them and what I needed to provide to
people who bought them from me.

When I re-sell these paphs to people in my country (the US) I only need to
provide a receipt just like I do with all my plants. There is no special
documentation required. I am usually asked, by the customer, to send a copy
along of Antec's receipt as proof that I got them from Antec but this
requirement of a forward propagating paper trail is internet lore. If you
stop to think about it, a copy of my receipt from Antec does not *prove*
that the plants I am selling came from Antec. The copy machine does not
know how many plants came out of the flask. It does not know if I am the
owner of the original receipt I am copying.

I was told by CITES DUDE the following (and this is hard to quote without
getting confusing, so I am going to paraphrase except for the words in
actual quotes): if the customer wishes and I was agreeable I could provide
them a statement that "these are legal plants derived from the Plant Rescue
Center Program of the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service" or something like
that.

Strangely, even this does not seem to be required. I was told *If the
customer wishes and I am agreeable*.... It seems CITES is sensitive to the
fact that I might not want to tell my customers where I get my plants for
purely economic reasons. Why buy them from me at the prices I am charging
if you can go to my source? Everybody is a middleman... However, I did not
mind sharing with my customers that the plants I was selling came from an
Antec flask. I actually printed it on the plant tag, for whatever that was
worth.... Occasionally I did get a little tense when they wanted me to go
make a copy of my receipt. If only because it is non-proof and protects
neither them or me from anything the government might do if it suspected
somebody is breaking the law.

So for the average customer, a receipt is all that is necessary and
required. However I was told by CITES DUDE that a statement of origin was
(and this is CITES DUDE verbatim now) "most critical to anyone who thinks
they might want to export the plants they got from you, or propagate them
and export their progeny. They'll need to get CITES export documents from
us, and we'll ask about the origin of the plants. Beyond that, it is likely
to become an issue only if someone has raised suspicions that they are
dealing in (buying or selling) illegal plants."

For what it's worth I believe there is no real way to track individual
plants bought and sold and grown within our borders. If you are dealing
with importers and exports of orchids you should check them for shady
qualities, if only for your own peace of mind. Don't buy something you
believe you shouldn't have no matter how badly you want it. If you are
breaking the import/export laws, you will eventually raise suspicions. The
CITES DUDE I am referring to is an orchid collector himself. He is an
active member of our local society and knows all the vendors in the area.

"Ted Byers" wrote in message
.. .
Andrew,

I expect that most here are as interested in conservation as anyone else
active in conservation.

Your solution, while commendable, is inadequate for the obective of
ensuring continued survival of orchids in the wild. You need a more
comprehensive system. First, as you say, there is a need, in each
country, for commercial growers who have proper documentation proving that
even when they sell species, the plants sold are the product of a breeding
program, and that who ensure that they have al the requisite CITES
documentation in place. They'd also have to ensure that they supply the
proper documentation to their customers so that they and/or their
customers can use the plants in their own breeding programs and maintain
the option of exporting their plants too. Second, there is an urgent need
to conserve habitat, and to design sampling regimes that protect the
species. For example, for species that can be produced by cloning, sample
only the meristem tissue for use in producing clones that in turn can be
used for breeding. And for genera such as the catts, sample only a number
of back bulbs from specimens that are large enough to spare them, and then
use the back bulbs to propagate the plants by whatever means. With some
plants, the only option would be to self specimen plants, or cross
neighboring planst of the same species/variety, and then come back later
to harvest the seeds (and this only with plants that have many more than
one flower so that natural propagation can occur too). With the
availability of portable GPS technology and hand-held computers, it should
be trivially easy to map orchid habitat so that those protecting the
habitat can easily find specimens they have found previously. Third, it
must be turned into an industry that people living in or near the habitat
that is to be protected can earn a living supporting the orchid industry
while concommitantly protecting the habitat. I'd expect that if the local
residents have a vested interest in protecting both the orchids and their
habitat, they'd help in such conservation efforts. Conservation
organisations have only two general options in this regard; they can help
improve the situation of the people living in or near the areas to be
protected, and work with them, or they can try to maintain a running
battle with them to the end of either fighting a losing battle or
exterminating the local residents (something I regard as reprehensible).
No matter how much I value orchids or the habitat in which they live, I
value people more. My impression of many environmental activists here is
that they have little regard for the people living in areas they want to
protect, often describing them in terms one would use to describe mortal
enemies.

Your option of producing so many orchids that there is little incentive to
deal in illegal orchids is a good one. However, unless embedded in a
broader system that includes enabling the trade in orchids (and indeed
other exotic organisms) in a manner that is consistent with, and supports
the objectives of CITES, as well as having as the top priority the
objective of meeting the needs of, and improving the living standards of,
the people living next door to the orchids we want to protect, it can not
ultimately acheive the objective of protecting wild orchids,

And you may want to lighten up a bit. For the vast majority of people,
their only option for supporting orchid conservation in particular, and
conservation in general, is to support, by buying plants from, vendors who
are involved in conservation and by joining those societies they can find
that are involved in conservation, not to mention lobbying politicians to
support conservation initiatives. Most orchid "consumers" will lack both
the means and the expertise required to get conservation done right.

Cheers,

Ted

--
R.E. (Ted) Byers, Ph.D., Ed.D.
R & D Decision Support Solutions
http://www.randddecisionsupportsolutions.com/
Healthy Living Through Informed Decision Making