On 5 Mar 2006 17:36:25 -0800, "James" wrote:

I didn't say it was the objective. I'm just giving a fact. What I
want from the seed is the genetics that will produce the plant I want.

Buying organic seeds means the farmer that produced them is trying to
tread lightly on the earth, and I want to support those efforts. Even
if I don't manage to be %100 organic in my yard, I can sure give a
little help to those who do.

Trouble with organic farming is that it take a few years to get going.

No, it doesn't. It doesn't take any longer to set up a flower or
vegetable bed doing it organically than using chemicals. I moved into
the house I'm in now in mid-summer, too late for much of a veggie
garden; but by the next spring, I had a 15 X 20 foot area cleared and
turned. I didn't use any weed killers or chemical fertilizers, just
lots of compost, manure, and a shovel. The second year, after having a
tree cut down and a shed removed, I extended the garden another 20
feet. This time I had a tiller, which was lovely when it came to
getting all those tree roots up.


Many newbies get sucked into organic and then give up.

I'll assume you're speaking of your own efforts, otherwise I'll have
to ask for a cite. I also note your deliberate negativity. Using the
words "sucked into" implies that organic gardening is some sort of
scam that people, to their detriment, are deceived into attempting. It
not, it's a very legitimate and pleasant way to manage a farm or a
garden. It's not for everyone, but it's not a scam.

Newbies should
not start organic unless the plot had been organic farmed

Oh hogwash. With all the information the Internet puts at your finger
tips, anyone can get all the help they need to garden exactly as they
want. The most important part of putting in a garden is good soil
prep, but that's true for both organic and chemical users.

The best thing when starting with a weed patch is to invest in enough
Roundup to kill all the weeds. Only then would you stand a chance
converting into organic. Of course if you have the time to hoe several
hours daily you CAN skip the Roundup.

I'm sorry your attempt at gardening organically left you so twisted
and bitter, but not everyone has that much trouble. I don't own a hoe,
and the biggest problem I have with weeds is the Lemon Basil thickets
that spring up all over my yard.

And Round Up is not the worst thing you can do to a garden, it doesn't
linger in the soil, and it only affects the plants sprayed. It
doesn't, however, kill the seeds in the soil; either, so you have to
keep spraying and spraying and spraying over the growing season, and
that makes it easier to damage the garden plants accidentally. I,
personally, would rather till the garden once in the spring, then use
mulch and weed paper to keep weeds from coming back; much better use
of my time, and I don't have to buy several expensive bottles of Round
Up. And, as a bonus, the mulch and weed paper conserve water and
prevent splash up of soil that can cause some plant diseases. The very
few weeds that do manage to get a roothold are easily pulled when I'm
harvesting.

I'm not a fanatic, I've used the poison ivy Round Up on some poison
ivy in the yard. I'm very allergic to it, and I can't get close, much
less chop it down. I used Andro on fire ant* mounds when I first
moved in, just until I could get the nematode populations in this yard
up high enough to keep them under control. Now, of course, I watch
with amusement as my neighbor scatters Andro about all summer, while
I've had maybe two or three mounds in the last couple of years.

I believe that working with nature is much better way to solve
problems than applying chemical band aids, both for me and for the
earth as a whole; but I recognize there are times when a little help
from a chemical goes a long way. Setting up to garden organically is
just not as hard as you make it out to be, though, and it's not an all
or none proposition.


Penelope


*Just to nip it in the bud...No, sprinkling grits on a fire ant mound
does not kill the ants. They do not eat the grits, swell, and explode.
All you get from sprinkling grits on a fire ant mound is fat, happy
ants. Adult fire ants do not swallow anything solid, they feed the
solid to their larva, which chew the grits before swallowing them, and
then regurgitate nutrients that the adults eat. Fire ant colonies that
disappear after the application of grits are moving because of the
disturbance to the mound entrance and not because of death. They'll
just open another entrance a few yards away.
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn"