"Nick Maclaren" wrote in message
...

In article ,
"michael adams" writes:
|
| Spade = black person.
|
| Nowadays yes. But I doubt if that was the case in 1589 when it
| was first used in English. That usage came from playing cards
| I believe.

Do you have a reference for that? The OED has nothing before 1928.


A reference to what ?

The phrase "as black as the ace of spades"

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It doesn't even have a reference to the card suit before 1598.

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Er no Nick, you seem to be missing the point.

References to dark skinned people as spades i.e Colin McInnes
"City of Spades" c. 195* clearly came after the reference was
already established to the card suit.

Before the card suit, there were no everyday objects caled spades
which were characteristically black in colour.

This topic didn't feature in the recent Victoria Coren telly prog
by any chance did it ? No wonder you let your attention wander.

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| In fact I imagine all three were sexual ephemisms.
|
| The "spade" was what you used in the "trough".

You have a, er, fertile imagination. Some evidence would help to
convince others.

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I'm not particaularly interested in convincing anyone.

Euphemisms perform a very useful function in society.

The words spade and trough clearly functioned as euphamisms,
and sexual topics have always been a fertile ground for
euphamisms. Both on grounds of delicacy and as a source of
ribaldry and double entendres.

The essence of good manners Nick, is not to inadvertantly make other
people feel uncomfortable when there's no immediate need.

Whether you or I happen to like it or not, some people really do
to feel uncomfortable over the use of terms such as "****ing".

In such circumstances only the most boorish individual would
insist on their right to persist.

Although perhaps by not citing as a precedent, the clearly
tautological - or self contradictory - depending on the
original intention - "I call a spade a spade ".

hth


michael adams

you troll me at your peril

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Regards,
Nick Maclaren.