Hal wrote:
On 11 Aug 2006 18:44:24 -0700, "Mike" wrote:

Supprised at your response. Here in Oregon we've seen lots of koi in
much shallower water- like 2 or three feet deep, and they seemed to be
thriving. I guess I'll just wait and see how things develop.
I was surprised to see the goldfish gone, since I thought koi were
mostly vegetarians, but there is little chance they made it to the
drain because there is a little shelf right before the exit waterfall,
and the water is only an eighth of an inch (or so) deep as it goes over
the shelf. There is also a mini pool around the drain where I'm sure
they'd hang out if they made it that far. There were some racoon
prints on the shelf that goes around, though, and some kingfishers have
been lurking around...still I thought at least a few might make it.

I read your original post to say six inches deep (6") was that six
feet instead? Six inches is too shallow in my opinion to keep koi.
My pond isn't for show koi either it is a garden pond with mutts and
only 2' deep. I'm sorry if I read the dimension wrong. I have only
4 long fin koi of my own, but I have a couple boarders waiting on pond
repairs and one of them isn't quite grown yet, but would barely be
able to swim in 6" of water and if she got in a hurry there would be a
wake.


Thanks for getting back to me, Hal. Yes, the pond is pretty deep, and
has a big slab of flagstone sitting up on concrete blocks down there
for the fish to hide under. I think the koi flushed all the baby
goldfish out of there and forced them to seek shelter under rocks
around the perimeter where the predators could get at them pretty
easily. I'm not too bummed because their fate was to become food
anyway...but they were awful cute while they lasted.
The koi are growing so fast you can see them enlarging every day, all
but one white one with a red head that doesn't seem too bright.


Koi and goldfish are bottom feeders that in a natural mud bottom pond
would not only eat vegetation, but animal life in the mud bottom as
well as small things that live in the water. I have a friend who
says they can strip a small bullfrog right out of the skin and spit
out the skin, I've never seen this, but koi allow too many fry to live
each year to be fish eaters. (They do eat the eggs.) They vacuum up
dirt/mud and spit out what they don't like. The koi even have teeth
of a sort in the back of their mouth/throat to crush shells of muscles
and snails, but I don't think they are likely to eat small fish.
This is why a lily pot not protected with stones over the top of the
dirt soon becomes an empty container with the potting soil spread all
over the bottom of the pond. They don't seem content to just destroy
the potting job, but continue to sift through the dirt for a while.
That may be where the expression "Dumb as dirt." came from.

I'm sorry you lost your fish, but that is the reason we buy feeders,
and I would try putting hiding places in the pond. I lost fish to
predators some years ago, but since have added some small red maple
and a menagerie of other things that prevent a heron with long wings
from having a clear open space to land. I have barrel ends with ports
cut in the sides weighted down (plastic barrels float.) with lily
pots. The fish use them at night and during winter, but I don't have
a racoon problem, I do have a have-a-heart trap and use it. Others
like things like water sprinklers and electric fences, or netting the
whole pond. I'm well into the city and don't want that kind of
wildlife or feral animals.

I have only known one person with a pond fed by a spring and the
biggest problem she had was algae growth. That isn't all bad,
because the fish like it, it just prevents us from seeing them during
the bloom. I don't think you have to worry about conditioning the
water/pond with such a rapid water change. Ammonia is the biggest
fear, just like in an aquarium, and the spring will continually
refresh the pond. I the fish are still alive, I wouldn't even worry
about pH, since there is a fish farmer near here that raises his fish
in water with a pH of 6. That is the way it comes out of the ground
and it works for him. OTOH most of us re circulate the same water
through a filter, that we depend on to convert ammonia/nitrates and
some don't even do the 10% water change weekly as recommended by Doc
Johnson (Koi Vet.).


Thanks for that, Hal, that was exactly what I was hoping to hear! I'm
eventually going to keep adding fish slowly, but will probably just
keep the ones I have for the next few months and see what happens. The
little critters cost too much to feed to predators.

Best,
Mike



Regards,

Hal