"gardenlen" wrote in message

well i guess farm1 you can believe the book which mainly only deal
with chemicals to control things and never look for the root cause.

I didn't mention any book that called for chemicals. You are making
an incorrect assumption but then you've made a number of incorrect
assumtions in this discussion.

You have also claimed (and presumably believe) that aphids are
flighless and must be carried. Rose aphids certainly do have wings at
soem stage of the season so I assume that they can fly. You have also
written of ants farming "those thript type bugs". Aphids and thrips
are 2 different insects. You also say that you have "observed ants
harvesting aphids not only on roses but on other plants as well".
Ants don't "harvest" aphids but they may eat the honeydew. Rose
aphids don't live on other plants except perhaps pyracantha.

Ants are not the cause of aphids. Aphids may result in ants being on
the roses to get the exudate from the aphids as you describe, BUT
without the aphids being there in the first place, they wouldn't be on
the roses. You said yourself that ants do NOT damage or eat the roses
so destroying the ants is only a secondary consideration. If you get
rid of the aphids then the ants won't be on the roses because they
don't eat the rose.

but i have had ants and aphids together many times as have many
other
gardeners.

You assume that all aphids are the same. They arent' there are
4,000+varieties of aphids.

And Len, not so long ago you wrote:
""gardenlen" wrote in message
g'day jen,

i'm no rose grower, so probably can't help too much here, but the
new
home we bought had some roses in the garden, so in preperation for
pulling the garden out i just cut them all back to almost ground
level, and those plants loved it they are a mass of growth and
healthy
looking plants not the spindly yukky looking things that uninspired
me
even more about the plant.

i know you are supposed to thin them out and prune them to an open
vase shape, but hey without any water these plants look great. the
funny bit i reckon they may even put on their best show of flowers
next season.

oh i'm even taking them out of the garden and potting them and they
haven't looked back, treat 'em rough i say they'll love it.

You admit that you aren't a rose grower.

I am. I planted my first rose 35 years ago. I also stopped coutning
when I got to 108 roses in my garden. Since I stopped counting (and
there are more than 108 roses in my garden) I have planted more roses.
I also have seen pics of your last 2 gardens and looked at the new
pics of your current place. Not a rose bush in sight.

I have aphids each year and I DON'T have ants on my roses and never
have had ants on my roses. My aphids disappear as the biological
controls work

i am on many other forums where there are horticulturists helping
people and they give the same advice that i have.

They may say that if you get rid of the aphids then you will get rid
of the ants on your roses.