On 22/2/07 22:57, in article
, "La Puce"
wrote:

On 22 Feb, 20:08, Sacha wrote:
But a few posts ago you were insisting that the plant at Burncoose is R.
Jackman's Prostrate - now you're saying it could be another plant
altogether! But when I suggested it might misnamed, you simply wouldn't
have it.

As Dave Poole has suggested:-

"I think it is fair to assume that any plant sporting the Jackmans
name, must be an old or fairly old English variety due to the
association with Jackmans of Woking. That said, it is virtually
unknown apart from the plants offered by Burncoose and therefore its
true identity must be highly suspect. There's a lot of difference
between a plant originally acquired from Jackmans (that they may have
acquired from another nursery/customer/friend etc.) and a variety
raised by Jackmans and given their name. The chances are it is
probably a recognised variety (in S. Europe) and that the correct
name
has been forgotten or lost along the way. As a result it may have
spent a short time as 'prostrate rosemary from Jackmans' and it
doesn't take a great leap for it to become Rosemarinus 'Jackman's
Prostrate'. It happens quite a lot in the trade resulting in one
plant having several names".

I give up. If there is anyone that is your equal for twisting and turning
and changing the meaning of her own, original posts, I have yet to meet her,
thank god. Right from the get-go of this 'debate' I have said that this
plant might have another name. Might. I have said over and over again that
it might turn out to be Jackman's Prostrate or it might not. Might. I have
said that I find it strange that if that's its proper name, only one nursery
now has it in England. I have said that its origins are lost, apparently
and according to Burncoose from whom I requested its provenance. What does
it take to make you read what others write and understand it?

Do you understand what David is explaining or are you going to give us
yet another lesson using Y Z and X? You have never suggested it had
been renamed

This is quite simply unreal. I don't know what to say or where to start.
You can't read. That is the only possible explanation.

- you've suggested Jackman's didn't exists after I first
mentioned it because you never heard of it, Ray never heard of it,
Google never heard of it and your book didn't mention it. There's a
wide world out there Sacha, and it doesn't only revolves around Sacha
and Ray and Hillhouse Nursery. I then tell you that in Bruncoose

It's Burncoose, Puce. And it's Hill House Nursery. You know that. You
stalked us here so as to be photographed in front of the signs. You posted
a link to yourself doing that. Remember?

they
have a Jackman's in their carpark. You still didn't acknowledged this.

No, you did NOT tell me that. Charlie suggested the possibility that the
two rosemaries were the same and suggested that we look at the one at
Burncoose. You mentioned Jackman's, not Jackman's Prostrate. Charlie
mentioned Burncoose originally. You latched onto that like a drowning man
looking for a lifebelt.

Then you tell us that they've told you so.

No, I did not. I told you that they could not certainly identify the
Salcombe one from a photo but that the one in their car park is Jackman's
Prostrate. Do not try to make a bad situation worse, Helene.


Then you apologise about
making a mistake to where you had seen this plant, only to recomfirm
that it was where you thought it be. Confused? Tell me about it.

If you read posts properly, you would not be confused. I said that I had
seen another rosemary in another garden, as it turns out and that it might
be the same one or a different one. I made my confusion clear *immediately*
and have not attempted to trade on it in any way and I have not referred to
it again. I cannot do anything about that one because its owners are out of
the country and I don't know how to contact them. It's another garden in
Salcombe. I dropped discussion of that one altogether and have made it
abundantly clear that I am continuing to talk about the one we photographed
and put onto our web site.
Quite clearly, you don't have a notion as to what it is but you're going to
keep trying to bamboozle us into thinking you do.


Then
you give us a latin name lesson as if you are the only bearer of such
knowledge. Yes, I beleived from your description it is a Jackman's or
a Blue Rain, in France we call it Noe, not 'de noe' just 'Noe'. It is
therefore possilbe that it is a Noe, changed to Jackman's. However it
could also be a Blue Rain.

You are something that couldn't even be written into a sitcom. Nobody would
believe it. First it's Jackman's, then that's Jackman's Prostrate (among
various other unsuitable suggestions) then it becomes Blue Rain, of which
you are *quite certain* and now it's Noe, not de Noe which it is possible
has been changed to Jackman's - that is Jackman's Prostrate - because you
say so. When I suggested the idea that R. Jackman's Prostrate was not this
plant's real and original name because changes in naming occur accidentally,
you were scornful. You were even insulting about this nursery and to me
personally. But now that you say it is R. Noe, you must be correct. Puce
has spoken. It's like some hideous joke when you keep waiting for Candid
Camera to turn up. You have not seen the plant in Salcombe and if you've
seen the plant at Burncoose, you're keeping extremely quiet about it. IOW,
you have no point of comparison or identification for either of these
plants.

With that I can only say that your persistance with this is key to the
way you think and you control. You are determined and as Anne Jackson
put it, there's no way any body else's will get the last word. I will
make this Rosemary mystery my next project - it is far too interesting
to give up now.

Please don't return to your unpleasant dragging of others into your ambit of
contention. You've done it with both David and Anne today; it's a very ugly
habit.
The reality is this: You have no idea what this plant is. You might be
right about one name or the other of the very many you have now *declared*
it to be. Or you might be wrong about all of them. That's why this is a
discussion group. I did not post my question saying only Puce is allowed to
ID this plant, you know!

As I keep saying you haven't even seen it. What IS it about you that you
have to be an expert on things you don't know about and have never seen?
Why can you not say "it might be", "perhaps it is", "had you thought of" -
why do you have to thump the table and do this awful, overwhelming "I know
best" act of yours? You do yourself no favours.
This makes no sense and all you're doing is damaging yourself over and over
again - how is it that you don't see what you're doing to your credibility?
The floor is yours, Puce. I really don't think I can say one more word that
will do more to show up your integrity than you do yourself.
--
Sacha
http://www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
http://www.discoverdartmoor.co.uk/
(remove weeds from address)