"George.com" wrote in message
...

sorry, I am going to get you started as I am going to enlarge the issue a
little.

no. bad man. shoo!

The way I see it, there is a very real potential the human race (as
we currently enjoy ourselves) is phuqed. What makes me think that?
Arguably
the current methods and patterns of production and consumption we 'enjoy'
are unsustainable from an environmental perspective.

why do you think that wouldn't change, though? (admittedly, never as fast as
one would like.)

This writer Diamond list 12 major (global) environmental problems: loss of
natural habitat; loss of wild food sources including seafood; loss of
bio-diversity; loss of soil and soil nutrition; limits on major energy
sources; limits on freshwater availability (as well as water degredation);
finite amounts of usuable sunlight; toxic chemicals; introduced pest
species; human produced gases deterimental to the atmosphere; polulation
growth; rising standards of living amongst the burgeoning population and
the
strains placed on the earths resources.
(snippage
A simple way of course would be for developed nations to ensure the 3rd
world remains 3rd world and therefore never develops our lifestyle habits.

a far simpler (and, obviously, fairer, and obviously, smarter) way would be
for the first world to downgrade, and for landholders of all kinds
(including those with only a balcony) to work together on just doing the
right thing. i mean, that sounds simplistic, but it's about that easy :-)

as the greens commonly say, we know we (the first world) are going to _have_
to change, so why not do it in a timely manner, and it won't be at all
painful. :-)

i feel that being a first-world person certainly does NOT have to mean
consuming (anything) beyond one's allocation. it just doesn't. i know that
we (my family) have a pretty modest lifestyle compared to some people, but
modest doesn't mean miserable, sparse, joyless or desperate. it's merely the
tiniest of mental adjustments & doing things a little differently.

keep in mind now that many people are now thinking about these things &
trying to sort through conflicting information, govt propaganda, their own
inertia & needfulness, and other matters just to get to the crux of what to
do. BUT, it's become a completely mainstream thing now, and therein lies the
answer. (i truly think nothing much gets achieved until a mode of thought
goes mainstream). in the meantime (sorry, i can't help it) we have a prime
minister who's still living in 1956 who thinks showering with a bucket is, i
quote, "extreme". it boggles the MIND. not only is that not extreme, but
there's a whole load of people who go further than that & _that's_ not
extreme, either!

War, terrorism, genocide, mass migration of peoples is possible as a
result
of this. I am cynical, there may be hope for society yet however if it
comes
time to bite some hard bullets I just can't see the preparedness at
present
to do so.

not much preparedness, or not enough, but i don't know. have you not noticed
how after al gore's movie, this issue has just _exploded_? which isn't to
say everyone's on board or anything like that, but it's a continual loud
dialogue now where for many years it was just a few people on the edges
being ignored.

we in the first world can (and do) supply good technology to the second(?)
and third worlds and i think it's our moral duty to, basically, make sure
they don't have to make hundreds of years' worth of first-world mistakes
from scratch. it's not fair (or wise) for us to say "you can't have what we
have". we can't do that. what we can do is revise our own selves down so
each person makes one little footprint each. and i know it's not hard. we'll
get there :-)
kylie

If you want an example of some of this go and visit Cuba. Look at their
economy/society in the 1980s, the 1990s and today.

rob