"Rupert" wrote in message
ps.com...
On Jul 5, 12:25 pm, "ontheroad" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in message

ups.com... On Jul 5,
10:52 am, "ontheroad" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in message

roups.com...

On Jul 5, 12:36 am, "ontheroad" wrote:
"Rupert" wrote in message

groups.com...

snippage..

Fine, well, I don't support animal abuse comparable to that
perpetrated by most animal agriculture that exists today, so why
can't
I criticize people for supporting such abuses?
==========================

And, it is equally right of us to criticize those that pretend to
care
about
animals
when ALL they do is avoid meat.

Most people who identify themselves as animal rights advocates do
significantly more than just avoid meat.
========================

Sure, they contribute to the deaths of billions of animals
unnecessarily.

Billions of animals die, they make a contribution to those deaths
which is greater than zero. But their contribution is a lot smaller
than most people's.

===============
Yet another claim you ahve yet to prove. You cannot assume that being
vegan or AR automatically means
fewer animals die for your lifestyle.


We've been over this quite a few times. I think I've provided enough
evidence for my claim that a vegan lifestyle has less impact on
animals than a typical Western lifestyle that it's reasonable to ask
you to provide some evidence to the contrary. (There may be *some* non-
vegan lifestyles that are just as good, I don't deny this. You seem to
be having trouble keeping track of the distinction between the two
issues).
==========================
Nice strawman, killer. the problem is that vegans claim that just being
vegan automatically means you're doing better.
As to your admission that being vegan doesn't automatically mean what they
claim is noted.




It is equally right of us to criticize
those that
ignore their brutal, inhumane impact on animals while complaining
about
what
they
think others are doing. As long as you continue to contribute to
the
deaths
of billions of
animals wrold wide for nothing more than your entertainment, then
you
are
just blowing
hot air and hypocrisy, fool.

That's nonsense. You're saying that as long as I use usenet I'm not
entitled to make any criticisms of the status quo. That is very
obviously utterly absurd. That's the point I've been making. You've
got no valid grounds to criticize someone just because they use
usenet, but are critical of some of the practices of modern society.
That is true of you as well.

=======================
ROTFLMAO Yes, I can criticize those that make the claim they care,
yet
do
nothing
but kill more animals. That is you, hypocrite. It is completely
valid
to
call hypocrites like you
to task, killer.

I'm not a hypocrite any more than you are.

==================
Yes fool, you are. I recognize and understand that every aspect of my
life
kills animals.

So do I.
====================
Nope. You try to claim otherwise, yet fail miserably at living up to that
claim.


I don't pretend, like you do, that by avoiding one particular product
that I
am doing
anything to kill fewer.


What are the reasons for doubting that?
====================
You're here, that proves it, killer...


It's absurd to say that my behaviour belies my claim to care about
animals, there's plenty of
evidence that I care about animals.

==========================
There's all the dead animals you kill to prove otherwise, hypocrite.


Elaborate. How many animals did I kill in the last year?
====================
How many did you save? Remember, the first claim was yours, that being
vegan saved animals.


Bearing in
mind that the electricity I use is produced by solar panels.
=======================
We've been through this bs before, killer. Skipping the fact that I don't
believe you,
since you're already a proven liar, your use of the internet, and the
demands you are part of go
far beyond the electric your computer uses. That you continue to ignore
your entertainment
impacts on animals is quite amusing to watch, killer.



And how
about the facts on the other side of the balance, that I've made many
significant changes to my lifestyle to reduce my impact on animals,
much more than most people, and that I volunteer a lot of my time to
an organization which aims to improve the situation of animals. What
rational grounds do you have for saying that these facts mean nothing?
If they do, then no-one cares about animals. Do you really find that a
plausible contention?
=======================
yet here you are, continuing to unnecessarily kill animals for nothing more
than your entertainment.
Yes, i say that your claims are quite implausible.



You've got no rational grounds for criticizing me.

=====================
Yes, I do. You're own actions prove your hypocrisy, killer.


Rubbish, as explained many times.
=============
Truth, as has been proven many times, killer.



What is the difference between you and me that entitles you to call me a
hypocrite? Let me guess, you've never made
the claim that you care about animals. It's utterly absurd to say that
I'm hypocritical because I claim to care about animals. Of course I
care about animals. Are you saying that no-one in this society cares
about animals in the slightest? What a joke.

=====================
No, you don't care about animals killer. that's the whole point. You
only
pay
lip service to some religion, but do nothing in reality to live up to
your
claims.


That's palpable, laughable rubbish. No rational person would take it
seriously for a moment.
=============================
Yet here you are, time after time proving your hypocrisy. Must be some
reason you keep
coming back \to look so foolish and display your ignorance, hypocrite.




I've never said you cannot criticize the status-quo, just
that doing so by killing
even more animals is a pointless exercise in hypocrisy, fool...

Too bad you're just to brain-dead to understand, huh killer?

Well, that's ridiculous. You're saying that anyone who uses usenet and
makes the slightest criticism of the status quo is a hypocrite. That's
a joke. Too bad you're too brain-dead to understand that.
===================

No fool, anyone that claims to save animals by not eating them and then
uses
usenet to
proclaim their hypocrisy is what I am saying, killer.

Which is stupid. I believe that the changes I have made to my diet
have reduced my expected contribution to animal suffering and death,
and I think I have provided some good, solid evidence for this.
======================
You've provided no such evidence, killer.


I also
acknowledge that when I use electricity over and above what is
produced by our house's solar panels, that increases my expected
contribution to animal suffering and death by an amount greater than
zero. So what's the problem? Where's the evidence of hypocrisy?
===================
It proves your claims to be lies, killer.


thanks for again
proving your ignorance and hypocrisy, killer.


Yawn.
==============
Run away now little boy....




snippage...

If raising animals for food causes significantly more harm than
is
necessary, and there is no compelling need to do it, why is it
justified?

=======================
there is no compelling need for rice either. No compelling need
for
potatoes. There
is no compelling need for bananas.Yet the production of all of
those
causes
far more
brutal, inhumane deaths of animals than those animals in
slaughterhouses.
Why do you
think those deaths are necessary? Why is it not justified for us
to
point
out the ignorance
and hypocrisy of your claims, eh killer?

If you genuinely think it's not justified to produce rice and
potatoes, you're welcome to argue your case. Of course you don't
really think that.

==================
No fool, I don't the point is that YOU should IF animals were really
a
concern to you.

Yeah, well, that's stupid. You're saying, if you have the slightest
level of concern about animals, then you must drop out of the consumer
society and grow all your own food and make all your own electricity,
and God knows what else. It's a farce.

===========================
No fool, those are your strawmen, killer.

No. It's clearly what you're saying. You said I don't care about
animals. You've got no rational grounds for saying that unless you
believe some farcical statement like the one above.
=============================
No, you proved it, fool. I merely pointed it out to you and the world to
see, hypocrite...


I'm giving you information about
how you COULD make a difference, but like all
hypocritical wannbe vegans here on usenet, you are more concerned about
YOUR
selfishness and entertainment.


There are lots of ways I could make a difference, and I do a lot to
make a difference, a lot more than most people. In particular, my
parents have bought solar panels which reduce the impact of my
electricity consumption, and I will buy solar panels myself when I am
living by myself and can afford them. As with everyone else, there are
some limits to what I am prepared to do. You don't do any more than
me, so what grounds have you got for criticizing me?
=======================
You actions, killer...




Different people have different levels of concern about animals, my
concern is much more extensive
that most people's.

=======================
You keep proving otherwise, killer.

That's utterly absurd. How? Argue the point.
===================
here you are, hypocrite...


Thanks for a great display of
hypocrisy.

Why do you think that the fact that I don't drop out of society and grow
all my own food is somehow a major criticism
of me? You think that anyone who doesn't do this and thinks that they
have the slightest level of concern about animals is a hypocrite? It's
absurd.

================
It's your claims that are absurd, killer.


'Fraid not.
==================
'fraid so, killer...





However, you keep proving that they are of no importance to you except
as
a
stepping
stone to your ultimate hypocrisy, fool.

That's a joke. The idea that they are of no importance to me is
contradicted by overwhelming evidence. There are no grounds for
calling me hypocritical, either, any more than you.
=========================

LOL I call you that from your actions, killer. Despite your claims, you
needlessly, unnecessarily, and brutally
kill far more animals than necessary for your life. Why? because you
value
YOUR entertainment and
convenience far more than any concern for animals.


I do not "brutally kill" anything. I consume some products whose
production caused some animal deaths. A lot less than most people, in
particular most of my electricity consumption is cruelty-free.
==================================
Another of your claims you fail to prove.


You
consume products whose production caused animal deaths at least as
much as me, of course. So why is it that I am hypocritical and you are
not? Because you don't claim to care about animals, you say. So anyone
who claims to care about animals and uses usenet is a hypocrite? Well,
that's a joke. We go over this over and over again.
====================
Nope, not a joke fool, the truth. You can deny all you want, but it won't
change the facts, killer...



You've got this idea that just because someone eats rice and
potatoes,
that means they're not entitled to make any
criticisms of modern farming whatsoever. Which is very obviously
utterly absurd. It's a joke.

====================
No, fool, it is not a joke when directed at those that make ignorant
claims
of 'saving' animals from
unnecessary death and suffering.

Yes, it is.

=[=================
Yes, your claims are a joke. Thanks for agreeing, and proving your
hypocrisy, killer...


Imbecile.
==================
Ah yes, great proof, hypocrite. How many animals did that kill? What, no,
how many animals did that save?
You really are just too stupid, killer... thanks for the laughs, I'll live
forever if laughter is the best medicine...





You have NO requirement to eat either
one, yet you do for your
convinience.

And?

==================
And nothing hypocrite. that was a complete and factual statement.


Yes, I agree. The same is true of everyone else, of course, in most
cases to a much greater extent. So what?
====================
No, it does not apply to everyone in the context you place it. Sane people
realize that animals are going to
die for the productions of any of their crops. You try to pretend that
somehow they are reduced just because you say you care.






Time and time again you make this farcical argument. We all draw the
line somewhere. Your view is that
only processes which harm humans (to a significant extent) should be
boycotted. I have a different view. There is no good reason why my
view is more hypocritical than yours.

==========================
LOL I've made no claims about saving animals fool. You have. You
claim
animals should not
be killed just to produce food for people.

Not significantly more than is necessary to keep the human population
healthy, no.

=========================
yet you continue to prove otherwise, killer. There is no survival or
health
need for you to be on usenet, nor to
eat your varity of imported foods and spices.


I use solar panels. You haven't established that my usenet usage
causes any deaths whatsoever.
===========================
Bullshit. You're a proven liar, and as I've told you before, you
contributions go far beyond your own computer, killer.
that you are too stupid and willfully ignorant to understand reality is part
and parcel of vegan ignorance.


You've been lamely arguing that Google
might get more advertising revenue from my actions, I don't think
that's very plausible unless I click on the ads.
====================
Bullshit, fool. I never said that, you have tried to imply it because of
your ignorance amd need to
not understand how you impact animals. Staying ignorant is want you have to
do to remain a
wannbe vegan...

You don't know
anything about how much imported food and spices I eat,
=======================
LOL You're too engrossed in your own convenience and entertainment. It's
easy toi see through you,
hypocrite.


and while I
can see that this is a concern from the point of view of global
warming, you haven't elaborated on how it bears on animals
specifically. I do not believe that I cause significantly more animal
suffering and death than is necessary to keep me healthy. To argue
otherwise you would have to come up with a reasonable estimate for how
much suffering and death I actually cause. You've never attempted this
task.
============================
LOL You make the original claims fool. try showing how many you have
saved.
I have shown how you kill animals, and nhow many are involved. Too bad
you've never
been ablr to back up anything you've said, killer.





Yet there you are, doing just
that. Plus, killing them
for your entertainment. That, fool, is hypocrisy.

No, it's not. I've never committed to any moral principles which
entail that what I'm doing is wrong. I've never said that I have an
absolute obligation not to financially support processes that cause
harm, even if that harm is "unnecessary". I've said that I should make
every reasonable effort to reduce my contribution to animal suffering.

====================
Which you prove otherwise with every inane post you make fool. Thanks
for
proving your hypocrisy
yet again, killer.


Nonsense.
==================
Thanks for proving your hypocrisy yet again, killer.




The term "reasonable" is vague and open to interpretation. I have
chosen a certain place to draw the line.

=========================
One based solely on your convenience and entertainment witrhout regard to
the number of
animals that die.

No, not at all. That's obvious nonsense.
==================
No, an obvious observation, killer.



Thanks for more proof of your hypocrisy, killer.

There's no reason why there's any more hypocrisy involved in that than
in the place where anyone
else chooses to draw the line. I've explained this time and time
again, and you continue to misrepresent my position. And you call me
foolish. You've got no grounds for calling me hypocritical, and your
failure to realize this after all these years is evidence of bigotry
and stupidity.

=======================
I suggest you look up the term, killer. the claims you make, and the
actions you take
are hypocrisy in spades, killer.


Hypocrisy means failing to act in accordance with your stated moral
beliefs. You usually get my moral beliefs wrong. You've yet to
demonstrate that my actions are inconsistent with my actual moral
beliefs.
===================
You backing off your claims to care/save animals? thanks for the admission
of your previous
hypocrisy, killer....




Why is the place where you draw the line preferable to the place
where
I draw the line? That's the
point you've got to argue, but you never make a decent attempt at
it,
you just endlessly repeat the farcical assertion that you should
either boycott rice and potatoes or else refrain from making any
criticism whatsoever of modern farming. It's a joke. Hey, maybe I
should boycott rice and potatoes, you are welcome to argue the case
if
you want to. But it's not what you really believe, so what's all the
fuss about?

===========================
The fuss is about your willful ignorance and hypocrisy, killer.

You've shown no evidence of either.
=====================

ROTFLMAO You've done that for me with every post fool. Mores the pity
that
you still fail
understand that, hypocrite.


As explained several times, this is a joke. More's the pity that you
still fail to understand *that*.

But then,
I expect you do nothing
except kill animals willy-nilly, just as you have done all along.
Thanks
for proving your hypocrisy, fool.

You're a joke.

===============
No, i've proven how big the joke is on you, killer.

'Fraid not.
====================
Thanks for proving your hypocrisy yet again, killer.